I need your opinion

Petriix

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

The net cost of the MG5 (including the hypothetical depreciation) will average £150 per month over the first 4 years compared to running my old diesel car, and reducing to £0 (or below) from year 4 onwards.

There is nothing hypothetical about depreciation.  It is very real and very large.

I don't understand the net cost you are referring to.  Is this built around the £25k investment will save £x per month in fuel?

It's a slightly more involved calculation (I made a simple spreadsheet). It averages the depreciation based on the GFV figures from the 48 month finance offers (£23k purchase price, £9k GFV) vs the amount my previous diesel car depreciated (£5k over 10 years) as well as comparing the fuel, servicing, tax, previous MOT costs, insurance, and additional mortgage interest.

The upshot is that the depreciation is £290 per month for the first 4 years (vs £50 for the hypothetical second hand diesel I would have otherwise bought) but under £100 per month thereafter. Other savings total around £90 per month so, for the first 48 months I'm down £150 per month. In reality it will be a curve where after around 40 months the monthly savings equal and then surpass the costs.

That £7200 seems like a reasonable price over 4 years to have the luxury of a brand new car that drives like playing a computer game and reduces my carbon footprint by around 10,000kg.

It's all very well to say that not having kids is better. But I don't see the point in struggling to maintain a habitable planet without inhabitants to inhabit it. 

NottinghamKnight

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

The net cost of the MG5 (including the hypothetical depreciation) will average £150 per month over the first 4 years compared to running my old diesel car, and reducing to £0 (or below) from year 4 onwards.

There is nothing hypothetical about depreciation.  It is very real and very large.

I don't understand the net cost you are referring to.  Is this built around the £25k investment will save £x per month in fuel?

It's a slightly more involved calculation (I made a simple spreadsheet). It averages the depreciation based on the GFV figures from the 48 month finance offers (£23k purchase price, £9k GFV) vs the amount my previous diesel car depreciated (£5k over 10 years) as well as comparing the fuel, servicing, tax, previous MOT costs, insurance, and additional mortgage interest.

The upshot is that the depreciation is £290 per month for the first 4 years (vs £50 for the hypothetical second hand diesel I would have otherwise bought) but under £100 per month thereafter. Other savings total around £90 per month so, for the first 48 months I'm down £150 per month. In reality it will be a curve where after around 40 months the monthly savings equal and then surpass the costs.

That £7200 seems like a reasonable price over 4 years to have the luxury of a brand new car that drives like playing a computer game and reduces my carbon footprint by around 10,000kg.

It's all very well to say that not having kids is better. But I don't see the point in struggling to maintain a habitable planet without inhabitants to inhabit it. 

the car manufacturing process will be significantly higher than 10 tonnes of carbon dioxide though. 

DrEskimo

NottinghamKnight said:

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

The net cost of the MG5 (including the hypothetical depreciation) will average £150 per month over the first 4 years compared to running my old diesel car, and reducing to £0 (or below) from year 4 onwards.

There is nothing hypothetical about depreciation.  It is very real and very large.

I don't understand the net cost you are referring to.  Is this built around the £25k investment will save £x per month in fuel?

It's a slightly more involved calculation (I made a simple spreadsheet). It averages the depreciation based on the GFV figures from the 48 month finance offers (£23k purchase price, £9k GFV) vs the amount my previous diesel car depreciated (£5k over 10 years) as well as comparing the fuel, servicing, tax, previous MOT costs, insurance, and additional mortgage interest.

The upshot is that the depreciation is £290 per month for the first 4 years (vs £50 for the hypothetical second hand diesel I would have otherwise bought) but under £100 per month thereafter. Other savings total around £90 per month so, for the first 48 months I'm down £150 per month. In reality it will be a curve where after around 40 months the monthly savings equal and then surpass the costs.

That £7200 seems like a reasonable price over 4 years to have the luxury of a brand new car that drives like playing a computer game and reduces my carbon footprint by around 10,000kg.

It's all very well to say that not having kids is better. But I don't see the point in struggling to maintain a habitable planet without inhabitants to inhabit it. 

the car manufacturing process will be significantly higher than 10 tonnes of carbon dioxide though. 

How much will it be?

Supersonos

DrEskimo said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

The net cost of the MG5 (including the hypothetical depreciation) will average £150 per month over the first 4 years compared to running my old diesel car, and reducing to £0 (or below) from year 4 onwards.

There is nothing hypothetical about depreciation.  It is very real and very large.

I don't understand the net cost you are referring to.  Is this built around the £25k investment will save £x per month in fuel?

It's a slightly more involved calculation (I made a simple spreadsheet). It averages the depreciation based on the GFV figures from the 48 month finance offers (£23k purchase price, £9k GFV) vs the amount my previous diesel car depreciated (£5k over 10 years) as well as comparing the fuel, servicing, tax, previous MOT costs, insurance, and additional mortgage interest.

The upshot is that the depreciation is £290 per month for the first 4 years (vs £50 for the hypothetical second hand diesel I would have otherwise bought) but under £100 per month thereafter. Other savings total around £90 per month so, for the first 48 months I'm down £150 per month. In reality it will be a curve where after around 40 months the monthly savings equal and then surpass the costs.

That £7200 seems like a reasonable price over 4 years to have the luxury of a brand new car that drives like playing a computer game and reduces my carbon footprint by around 10,000kg.

It's all very well to say that not having kids is better. But I don't see the point in struggling to maintain a habitable planet without inhabitants to inhabit it. 

the car manufacturing process will be significantly higher than 10 tonnes of carbon dioxide though. 

How much will it be?

I'm sure I read that producing a Tesla's battery releases 15 tonnes of CO2.

NottinghamKnight

DrEskimo said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

The net cost of the MG5 (including the hypothetical depreciation) will average £150 per month over the first 4 years compared to running my old diesel car, and reducing to £0 (or below) from year 4 onwards.

There is nothing hypothetical about depreciation.  It is very real and very large.

I don't understand the net cost you are referring to.  Is this built around the £25k investment will save £x per month in fuel?

It's a slightly more involved calculation (I made a simple spreadsheet). It averages the depreciation based on the GFV figures from the 48 month finance offers (£23k purchase price, £9k GFV) vs the amount my previous diesel car depreciated (£5k over 10 years) as well as comparing the fuel, servicing, tax, previous MOT costs, insurance, and additional mortgage interest.

The upshot is that the depreciation is £290 per month for the first 4 years (vs £50 for the hypothetical second hand diesel I would have otherwise bought) but under £100 per month thereafter. Other savings total around £90 per month so, for the first 48 months I'm down £150 per month. In reality it will be a curve where after around 40 months the monthly savings equal and then surpass the costs.

That £7200 seems like a reasonable price over 4 years to have the luxury of a brand new car that drives like playing a computer game and reduces my carbon footprint by around 10,000kg.

It's all very well to say that not having kids is better. But I don't see the point in struggling to maintain a habitable planet without inhabitants to inhabit it. 

the car manufacturing process will be significantly higher than 10 tonnes of carbon dioxide though. 

How much will it be?

It'll vary widely but I've seen typical figures of around 15 tonnes quoted. I would have thought it would have been significantly higher, iron ore extraction and processing, typically from Australia, oil input into all the plastics, worldwide shipping and transport etc 

Petriix

It will take ~ 3 years for the additional CO2 released in the manufacture of an EV (compared to a new ICE vehicle) to be offset by the reduced CO2 from fueling it; and that doesn't account for the CO2 emissions associated with the fossil fuel supply chain which are hard to quantify.

It's not a silver bullet but, as part of a general move to reduce our impact, switching to an EV will certainly be a positive step in comparison to continuing to use diesel. Today (one of the darkest day of the year) we were able to add 1.2kWh from our solar panels to the car, which is good for about 5 miles. And entirely fueled our trip into the city.

DrEskimo

NottinghamKnight said:

DrEskimo said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

The net cost of the MG5 (including the hypothetical depreciation) will average £150 per month over the first 4 years compared to running my old diesel car, and reducing to £0 (or below) from year 4 onwards.

There is nothing hypothetical about depreciation.  It is very real and very large.

I don't understand the net cost you are referring to.  Is this built around the £25k investment will save £x per month in fuel?

It's a slightly more involved calculation (I made a simple spreadsheet). It averages the depreciation based on the GFV figures from the 48 month finance offers (£23k purchase price, £9k GFV) vs the amount my previous diesel car depreciated (£5k over 10 years) as well as comparing the fuel, servicing, tax, previous MOT costs, insurance, and additional mortgage interest.

The upshot is that the depreciation is £290 per month for the first 4 years (vs £50 for the hypothetical second hand diesel I would have otherwise bought) but under £100 per month thereafter. Other savings total around £90 per month so, for the first 48 months I'm down £150 per month. In reality it will be a curve where after around 40 months the monthly savings equal and then surpass the costs.

That £7200 seems like a reasonable price over 4 years to have the luxury of a brand new car that drives like playing a computer game and reduces my carbon footprint by around 10,000kg.

It's all very well to say that not having kids is better. But I don't see the point in struggling to maintain a habitable planet without inhabitants to inhabit it. 

the car manufacturing process will be significantly higher than 10 tonnes of carbon dioxide though. 

How much will it be?

It'll vary widely but I've seen typical figures of around 15 tonnes quoted. I would have thought it would have been significantly higher, iron ore extraction and processing, typically from Australia, oil input into all the plastics, worldwide shipping and transport etc 

Have you got a source?

Is just that from all my research I have seen much lower figures, typically in the 5-10 tonnes range. All of which vary massively depending on battery cell composition and geographic location of the manufacturer.

Of course, all of which has the potential to keep dramatically reducing as the grid decarbonises. Something that is not true of fuel production and tailpipe emissions.



Source: https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life-cycle-GHG_ICCT-Briefing_09022018_vF.pdf

Yes you also have chassis production and transportation to consider on top.

NottinghamKnight

DrEskimo said:

NottinghamKnight said:

DrEskimo said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Petriix said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

The net cost of the MG5 (including the hypothetical depreciation) will average £150 per month over the first 4 years compared to running my old diesel car, and reducing to £0 (or below) from year 4 onwards.

There is nothing hypothetical about depreciation.  It is very real and very large.

I don't understand the net cost you are referring to.  Is this built around the £25k investment will save £x per month in fuel?

It's a slightly more involved calculation (I made a simple spreadsheet). It averages the depreciation based on the GFV figures from the 48 month finance offers (£23k purchase price, £9k GFV) vs the amount my previous diesel car depreciated (£5k over 10 years) as well as comparing the fuel, servicing, tax, previous MOT costs, insurance, and additional mortgage interest.

The upshot is that the depreciation is £290 per month for the first 4 years (vs £50 for the hypothetical second hand diesel I would have otherwise bought) but under £100 per month thereafter. Other savings total around £90 per month so, for the first 48 months I'm down £150 per month. In reality it will be a curve where after around 40 months the monthly savings equal and then surpass the costs.

That £7200 seems like a reasonable price over 4 years to have the luxury of a brand new car that drives like playing a computer game and reduces my carbon footprint by around 10,000kg.

It's all very well to say that not having kids is better. But I don't see the point in struggling to maintain a habitable planet without inhabitants to inhabit it. 

the car manufacturing process will be significantly higher than 10 tonnes of carbon dioxide though. 

How much will it be?

It'll vary widely but I've seen typical figures of around 15 tonnes quoted. I would have thought it would have been significantly higher, iron ore extraction and processing, typically from Australia, oil input into all the plastics, worldwide shipping and transport etc 

Have you got a source?

Is just that from all my research I have seen much lower figures, typically in the 5-10 tonnes range. All of which vary massively depending on battery cell composition and geographic location of the manufacturer.

Of course, all of which has the potential to keep dramatically reducing as the grid decarbonises. Something that is not true of fuel production and tailpipe emissions.



Source: https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life-cycle-GHG_ICCT-Briefing_09022018_vF.pdf

Yes you also have chassis production and transportation to consider on top.

Yes, I was referring to the whole car production not just the battery. Simplistically I would refer to the waste hierarchy which flows from reduce to reuse to recycle to renew, in which case the act of producing any new vehicle will be more damaging environmentally speaking. That 1950s Land Rover will look pretty good compared to a lifetime of changing a vehicle every 5 years or so, even with it's poor fuel economy. 

Flight3287462

Petriix said:

.....as part of a general move to reduce our impact, switching to an EV will certainly be a positive step in comparison to continuing to use diesel. 

What about the child Mica miners (as a single example there are many more) in places like Madagascar, do they not figure in the pursuit of your EV revolution ?

 As I have said before EV is the Betamax of personal transportation.

Petriix

It's a common misconception that continuing to run an old vehicle will be better for the environment. In just 5 years, the lower emissions will offset the entire CO2 cost of building and running my new EV compared to just fueling an old Land Rover.