Final probation meeting late, probation extended without warning

Ariotofmyown

Been with current employer for over 3 months now, probation review due a week ago was finally conducted 2 hours before line manager goes away on holiday for 2 weeks.
First monthly review action was regards a mistake I had made due to lack of training, no further mistakes made. No other comments. Following a product changeover was hauled in the office and told that changeover time had taken too long and I had to show more urgency going forward and this would be put down as an action on my probation review. Review of progress against original actions never took place. 

Roll onto today, final probation review took place a week after the 3 months was up. Was told that changeover times had decreased (which is true) but now the issue was that I was not leading my team of people effectively and for that reason my probation was to be extended. 
I said in my opinion that was unfair as this had never been mentioned to me previously and I therefore had no time to improve and what evidence was there of this behaviour? Was told of an incident yesterday when I had asked a member of staff to go to another line but they came back and went to another therefore disobeying me. I explained the reasons and said it was unfair to use a recent isolated incident as a reflection of my performance and was told you know what it's like if a manager comes down to the shop floor and sees a mess they will think that is the status quo and that they do not have time to see me operating all the time so can only rely on snapshots. 

Am unsure what to do now, as I said in the meeting I am happy to look at ways I can improve it is the fact that this was never mentioned to me  before today or documented as an action and so have not had the chance to improve to my detriment - as I have not been signed off then I will not receive the uplift in pay as per my contract, my other concern being the factory is now shut for 2 weeks meaning I have effectively 2 weeks to prove that I have improved - if this is extended to 6 weeks to reflect this then again I will be financially disadvantaged accordingly.

The meeting was on the whole fairly amicable but am very worried now about the way things have been handled so far and that this could then continue into my next review.

I understand that passing probation period is not the be all and end all of things as they can bullet me anytime within 2 years but at least I get slightly more protection and notice period.
Not sure whether to raise my concerns with HR now or just roll with it. Very uncertain what course of action to take now other than try to comply or to progress this with HR.

Undervalued

Ariotofmyown said:

Been with current employer for over 3 months now, probation review due a week ago was finally conducted 2 hours before line manager goes away on holiday for 2 weeks.
First monthly review action was regards a mistake I had made due to lack of training, no further mistakes made. No other comments. Following a product changeover was hauled in the office and told that changeover time had taken too long and I had to show more urgency going forward and this would be put down as an action on my probation review. Review of progress against original actions never took place. 

Roll onto today, final probation review took place a week after the 3 months was up. Was told that changeover times had decreased (which is true) but now the issue was that I was not leading my team of people effectively and for that reason my probation was to be extended. 
I said in my opinion that was unfair as this had never been mentioned to me previously and I therefore had no time to improve and what evidence was there of this behaviour? Was told of an incident yesterday when I had asked a member of staff to go to another line but they came back and went to another therefore disobeying me. I explained the reasons and said it was unfair to use a recent isolated incident as a reflection of my performance and was told you know what it's like if a manager comes down to the shop floor and sees a mess they will think that is the status quo and that they do not have time to see me operating all the time so can only rely on snapshots. 

Am unsure what to do now, as I said in the meeting I am happy to look at ways I can improve it is the fact that this was never mentioned to me  before today or documented as an action and so have not had the chance to improve to my detriment - as I have not been signed off then I will not receive the uplift in pay as per my contract, my other concern being the factory is now shut for 2 weeks meaning I have effectively 2 weeks to prove that I have improved - if this is extended to 6 weeks to reflect this then again I will be financially disadvantaged accordingly.

The meeting was on the whole fairly amicable but am very worried now about the way things have been handled so far and that this could then continue into my next review.

I understand that passing probation period is not the be all and end all of things as they can bullet me anytime within 2 years but at least I get slightly more protection and notice period.
Not sure whether to raise my concerns with HR now or just roll with it. Very uncertain what course of action to take now other than try to comply or to progress this with HR.

You have almost answered your own question in the last paragraph. Plus, HR are not there as neutral arbiters, their role is to do the company's bidding and protect them from all the nasty issues staff cause!

Yes, "passing" probation may give you some additional contractual benefits but apart from that it is legally almost meaningless. 

74jax

Ariotofmyown said:

Been with current employer for over 3 months now, probation review due a week ago was finally conducted 2 hours before line manager goes away on holiday for 2 weeks.
Roll onto today, final probation review took place a week after the 3 months was up. Was told that changeover times had decreased (which is true) but now the issue was that I was not leading my team of people effectively and for that reason my probation was to be extended. 
I said in my opinion that was unfair as this had never been mentioned to me previously and I therefore had no time to improve and what evidence was there of this behaviour? Was told of an incident yesterday when I had asked a member of staff to go to another line but they came back and went to another therefore disobeying me. I explained the reasons and said it was unfair to use a recent isolated incident as a reflection of my performance.
.... the factory is now shut for 2 weeks meaning I have effectively 2 weeks to prove that I have improved - if this is extended to 6 weeks to reflect this then again I will be financially disadvantaged accordingly.

Not sure whether to raise my concerns with HR now or just roll with it. Very uncertain what course of action to take now other than try to comply or to progress this with HR.

Having the meeting 2hrs before leaving seems better to me than not having the meeting and it being put off.  Did the meeting end before everything was discussed to allow the manager to go on holiday? If so, I would be slightly miffed too and ask for the meeting to reconvene when they are back, as really it hasn't finished.
You say it had never been mentioned to you before about leading your team effectively.  Is there nothing in your job description about this? I also think it's good they mentioned the incident from the day before rather than waiting until agreed the break. 
Personally I wouldn't involve HR on this basis, you say it was amicable. HR help the company when dealing with employee issues, I'm not sure as the employee I would bring the matter to their attention at this stage. Do you have your handbook, copies of all policies? You could maybe drop an email saying following your probation review you'd like a copy of all policies, you can then see if everything  has been followed correctly? 

Ariotofmyown

Undervalued said:

You have almost answered your own question in the last paragraph. Plus, HR are not there as neutral arbiters, their role is to do the company's bidding and protect them from all the nasty issues staff cause!

Yes, "passing" probation may give you some additional contractual benefits but apart from that it is legally almost meaningless. 

Appreciate you taking the time to reply, I guess I deliberately put the comment in about limited protection rights even after passing probation as I was trying to avoid any replies stating exactly that but in essence I would much prefer being dismissed with 3 months notice during my first 2 years of service than 1 weeks notice during my probation if it was that choice hence my original post.
My largest concerns still are that the time period I have to improve is curtailed by half now due to the factory being shutdown and also that the issue which caused my probation to be extended was only mentioned during my 1 week late final review thus giving me zero time to be able to improve. The comment about a snapshot of my performance also concerns me as this is not reflective of my overall performance in my opinion.

Ariotofmyown

I've also just checked my employment contract which states that the employer must give notice in writing that the probation period is to be extended before the expiry of the original period. This clearly has not happened as my start date was the 15th September and I was only told verbally today (19th Dec) that my probation would be extended. 

Ariotofmyown

74jax said:

Ariotofmyown said:

Been with current employer for over 3 months now, probation review due a week ago was finally conducted 2 hours before line manager goes away on holiday for 2 weeks.
Roll onto today, final probation review took place a week after the 3 months was up. Was told that changeover times had decreased (which is true) but now the issue was that I was not leading my team of people effectively and for that reason my probation was to be extended. 
I said in my opinion that was unfair as this had never been mentioned to me previously and I therefore had no time to improve and what evidence was there of this behaviour? Was told of an incident yesterday when I had asked a member of staff to go to another line but they came back and went to another therefore disobeying me. I explained the reasons and said it was unfair to use a recent isolated incident as a reflection of my performance.
.... the factory is now shut for 2 weeks meaning I have effectively 2 weeks to prove that I have improved - if this is extended to 6 weeks to reflect this then again I will be financially disadvantaged accordingly.

Not sure whether to raise my concerns with HR now or just roll with it. Very uncertain what course of action to take now other than try to comply or to progress this with HR.

Having the meeting 2hrs before leaving seems better to me than not having the meeting and it being put off.  Did the meeting end before everything was discussed to allow the manager to go on holiday? If so, I would be slightly miffed too and ask for the meeting to reconvene when they are back, as really it hasn't finished.
You say it had never been mentioned to you before about leading your team effectively.  Is there nothing in your job description about this? I also think it's good they mentioned the incident from the day before rather than waiting until agreed the break. 
Personally I wouldn't involve HR on this basis, you say it was amicable. HR help the company when dealing with employee issues, I'm not sure as the employee I would bring the matter to their attention at this stage. Do you have your handbook, copies of all policies? You could maybe drop an email saying following your probation review you'd like a copy of all policies, you can then see if everything  has been followed correctly? 

I've just checked my employment contract which clearly states that if the company is to extend the probation period then this must be done in writing prior to the expiry of the original period and must state the revised review date. This has not happened as my employment started on the 15th September and the 3 month review was today. I believe I have grounds to raise this with HR with this alone.
In reply to your other questions I ended the meeting not abruptly but we were going round in circles and felt resigned that my points weren't being listened to hence my query on here whether to take matters elsewhere. 
And yes my core duties include leading a team, throughout all of this so far my overriding concern has been that this has never been raised with me during my probation period apart from today and is now being used as the sole reason to extend it. This was part of the reason the meeting was curtailed as I stated clearly that I was happy to take on board any feedback and improvement points so wasn't arguing with the feedback I felt it unfair that this had never been highlighted to me as part of my probation review or action plan so to spring it on me today at the end of my review period giving me no time to improve was inappropriate.
I also raised points I have previously raised with HR that the training and support and guidance I have been given during my time at the company was zero, I was asked to undertake a job following someone being off long term sick without any training whatsoever which I did without complaint to help the business and I felt totally demoralised now that this was the way the company recognises this. 

74jax

Ariotofmyown said:

74jax said:

Ariotofmyown said:

Been with current employer for over 3 months now, probation review due a week ago was finally conducted 2 hours before line manager goes away on holiday for 2 weeks.
Roll onto today, final probation review took place a week after the 3 months was up. Was told that changeover times had decreased (which is true) but now the issue was that I was not leading my team of people effectively and for that reason my probation was to be extended. 
I said in my opinion that was unfair as this had never been mentioned to me previously and I therefore had no time to improve and what evidence was there of this behaviour? Was told of an incident yesterday when I had asked a member of staff to go to another line but they came back and went to another therefore disobeying me. I explained the reasons and said it was unfair to use a recent isolated incident as a reflection of my performance.
.... the factory is now shut for 2 weeks meaning I have effectively 2 weeks to prove that I have improved - if this is extended to 6 weeks to reflect this then again I will be financially disadvantaged accordingly.

Not sure whether to raise my concerns with HR now or just roll with it. Very uncertain what course of action to take now other than try to comply or to progress this with HR.

Having the meeting 2hrs before leaving seems better to me than not having the meeting and it being put off.  Did the meeting end before everything was discussed to allow the manager to go on holiday? If so, I would be slightly miffed too and ask for the meeting to reconvene when they are back, as really it hasn't finished.
You say it had never been mentioned to you before about leading your team effectively.  Is there nothing in your job description about this? I also think it's good they mentioned the incident from the day before rather than waiting until agreed the break. 
Personally I wouldn't involve HR on this basis, you say it was amicable. HR help the company when dealing with employee issues, I'm not sure as the employee I would bring the matter to their attention at this stage. Do you have your handbook, copies of all policies? You could maybe drop an email saying following your probation review you'd like a copy of all policies, you can then see if everything  has been followed correctly? 

I've just checked my employment contract which clearly states that if the company is to extend the probation period then this must be done in writing prior to the expiry of the origin period and state the revised review date. This has not happened as my employment started on the 15th September and the 3 month review was today. I believe I have grounds to raise this with HR with this alone.
In reply to your other questions I ended the meeting not abruptly but we were going round in circles and felt resigned that my points weren't being listened to hence my query on here whether to take matters elsewhere. 

In which case I would think HR are already aware and the letter will be on its way - they may all be working remotely or the post delayed, they could probably confirm via email if you'd prefer it that way than an actual letter. 
You could drop an email saying you haven't recieved it yet, and it's passed the 3 month stage, can they reply via email.
Was the review formally noted, ie a company form etc? Do you have a copy? If not you can ask HR for a copy of this so you at least can see what was recorded.
Were you aware on 15th (3 months from starting) that your review meeting was on 19th? I'd have thought this would be seen as reasonable acceptance that probation would be confirmed then. 
If you are wanting to raise a grievance against your manager if you don't think procedures have been followed, I'm not sure HR is your best bet as they are on the side of the employer, they can get you the forms (if you don't have access) but your union or acas would be where you go. 
What is your ideal outcome? If it is just to have 4 WORKING weeks to rectify issues I would definately check the meeting records to see what was recorded about timescales.
If a review meeting has been agreed for 4 weeks but only 2 WORKING weeks, if cancel and state as per the meeting on xxx Dec I believe the meeting should 4 working weeks. 

Ariotofmyown

74jax said:

Ariotofmyown said:

74jax said:

Ariotofmyown said:

Been with current employer for over 3 months now, probation review due a week ago was finally conducted 2 hours before line manager goes away on holiday for 2 weeks.
Roll onto today, final probation review took place a week after the 3 months was up. Was told that changeover times had decreased (which is true) but now the issue was that I was not leading my team of people effectively and for that reason my probation was to be extended. 
I said in my opinion that was unfair as this had never been mentioned to me previously and I therefore had no time to improve and what evidence was there of this behaviour? Was told of an incident yesterday when I had asked a member of staff to go to another line but they came back and went to another therefore disobeying me. I explained the reasons and said it was unfair to use a recent isolated incident as a reflection of my performance.
.... the factory is now shut for 2 weeks meaning I have effectively 2 weeks to prove that I have improved - if this is extended to 6 weeks to reflect this then again I will be financially disadvantaged accordingly.

Not sure whether to raise my concerns with HR now or just roll with it. Very uncertain what course of action to take now other than try to comply or to progress this with HR.

Having the meeting 2hrs before leaving seems better to me than not having the meeting and it being put off.  Did the meeting end before everything was discussed to allow the manager to go on holiday? If so, I would be slightly miffed too and ask for the meeting to reconvene when they are back, as really it hasn't finished.
You say it had never been mentioned to you before about leading your team effectively.  Is there nothing in your job description about this? I also think it's good they mentioned the incident from the day before rather than waiting until agreed the break. 
Personally I wouldn't involve HR on this basis, you say it was amicable. HR help the company when dealing with employee issues, I'm not sure as the employee I would bring the matter to their attention at this stage. Do you have your handbook, copies of all policies? You could maybe drop an email saying following your probation review you'd like a copy of all policies, you can then see if everything  has been followed correctly? 

I've just checked my employment contract which clearly states that if the company is to extend the probation period then this must be done in writing prior to the expiry of the origin period and state the revised review date. This has not happened as my employment started on the 15th September and the 3 month review was today. I believe I have grounds to raise this with HR with this alone.
In reply to your other questions I ended the meeting not abruptly but we were going round in circles and felt resigned that my points weren't being listened to hence my query on here whether to take matters elsewhere. 

In which case I would think HR are already aware and the letter will be on its way - they may all be working remotely or the post delayed, they could probably confirm via email if you'd prefer it that way than an actual letter. 
You could drop an email saying you haven't recieved it yet, and it's passed the 3 month stage, can they reply via email.
Was the review formally noted, ie a company form etc? Do you have a copy? If not you can ask HR for a copy of this so you at least can see what was recorded.
Were you aware on 15th (3 months from starting) that your review meeting was on 19th? I'd have thought this would be seen as reasonable acceptance that probation would be confirmed then. 
If you are wanting to raise a grievance against your manager if you don't think procedures have been followed, I'm not sure HR is your best bet as they are on the side of the employer, they can get you the forms (if you don't have access) but your union or acas would be where you go. 
What is your ideal outcome? If it is just to have 4 WORKING weeks to rectify issues I would definately check the meeting records to see what was recorded about timescales.
If a review meeting has been agreed for 4 weeks but only 2 WORKING weeks, if cancel and state as per the meeting on xxx Dec I believe the meeting should 4 working weeks. 

Am not sure how HR can backdate a letter to before a meeting has taken place to say that the review has taken place within 3 months of the start date when clearly it hasn't? I was aware that my 3 months was up on the 15th December and got asked to go down to see my manager 2 hours before the end of the day this morning - no advanced warning, no appointment  - only an apology that they had been busy and were aware that it was a week late.
I wasn't given a copy of either of my previous 2 reviews indeed I wasn't shown my mid probation review until today but I did make a personal note of the comments made on it at the time - I was just told that those comments would be written into it without ever having a formal review. And no I didn't receive a copy of the final review today but again I did make notes myself for the above reasons. 
I am in a cleft stick now - if I ask for the next review to be 4 working weeks then I am being financially penalised further as am earning my existing pre probation rate for longer assuming I do pass. The statement made today by my manager was that it would be 2 weeks after the factory reopens which for the sake of 2 extra weeks seems pointless to extend my probation at all as in 2 weeks would anyone's performance change that radically? Which adds further to my concern. 

ssparks2003

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

Ariotofmyown

ssparks2003 said:

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

I was looking for constructive advice regards the events which have happened, am fully aware of the feedback points which were relayed back to me.
I was also querying how my contract states that the company must inform me prior to the end of the current period that it is to be extended which it hasn't as I was unawares of this until the meeting today a week afterwards and asking if they had followed protocol or not. Not getting hung up over Royal Mail as you put it. 

AskAsk

if they are already having a go at you during your probation period then it does not look well.  i haven't come across many probation that have failed and where they have been extended the person failed the extension.

if this was me, i would start to make new plans and look for other jobs as this one is obviously not working out.