Final probation meeting late, probation extended without warning

Undervalued

Ariotofmyown said:

ssparks2003 said:

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

I was looking for constructive advice regards the events which have happened, am fully aware of the feedback points which were relayed back to me.
I was also querying how my contract states that the company must inform me prior to the end of the current period that it is to be extended which it hasn't as I was unawares of this until the meeting today a week afterwards and asking if they had followed protocol or not. Not getting hung up over Royal Mail as you put it. 

But sadly there is next to nothing you can usefully do about it if they don't!

The bottom line, as you know, is that you have little job security in the first two years. If they were to dismiss you, your only claim would be for wrongful dismissal (effectively breach of contract) which doesn't require two years service. However, the maximum such a claim would yield is a week or two's pay if you could show that it would have taken them longer to have followed the contractual procedures.

So ultimately you need to concentrate on your performance, so that they actively want to continue to employ you and not get bogged down in minor points of procedure.

ssparks2003

Ariotofmyown said:

ssparks2003 said:

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

I was looking for constructive advice regards the events which have happened, am fully aware of the feedback points which were relayed back to me.
I was also querying how my contract states that the company must inform me prior to the end of the current period that it is to be extended which it hasn't as I was unawares of this until the meeting today a week afterwards and asking if they had followed protocol or not. Not getting hung up over Royal Mail as you put it. 

You was given constructive advice on how to keep this job in 2021, and the advice was to stop focusing on a non issue of whether "correct procedure" was followed as that will no save you being dismissed, and instead fix the issues on your side.

The simple fact is for the first 2 years they can get rid of you without breaking a sweat, I did this to a member of my team last week because they were not performing. One 10 min meeting with HR and the member of staff, a quick "sorry you are not performing" and a "best of luck with your future " and they were out of the door. 

eamon

Sounds like you work somewhere that has lots of KPI's that they use to monitor SLA's. In short very target driven.

Quickly you need to understand & implement your input to fulfilling the KPI's. If you need more help from your line manager then say so, should it need to be documented in your reviews then so be it as blame can sometimes be shifted upwards. If you need to discipline members of your team then do so. As others have said don't go anywhere near HR all this does is raise your profile but in a bad way.

MalMonroe

What an awful employer.

If I were you I would do two things -

Contact Acas, discuss the matter with them and ask their advice. I've found them really helpful in the past. Here is the link - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact
Citizens advice also have some info -
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/

And then I'd start looking around for a new job, asap.

MalMonroe

ssparks2003 said:

Ariotofmyown said:

ssparks2003 said:

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

I was looking for constructive advice regards the events which have happened, am fully aware of the feedback points which were relayed back to me.
I was also querying how my contract states that the company must inform me prior to the end of the current period that it is to be extended which it hasn't as I was unawares of this until the meeting today a week afterwards and asking if they had followed protocol or not. Not getting hung up over Royal Mail as you put it. 

You was given constructive advice on how to keep this job in 2021, and the advice was to stop focusing on a non issue of whether "correct procedure" was followed as that will no save you being dismissed, and instead fix the issues on your side.

The simple fact is for the first 2 years they can get rid of you without breaking a sweat, I did this to a member of my team last week because they were not performing. One 10 min meeting with HR and the member of staff, a quick "sorry you are not performing" and a "best of luck with your future " and they were out of the door. 

And just before Christmas too. Employees do still have rights, even if they have not worked somewhere for two years. I just hope that ex-employee of yours was given reasons for dismissal in writing but whether or not they were, they can still take action against you and/or your organisation. I hope they do. Maybe then you will be able to break a sweat.

General_Grant

MalMonroe said:

ssparks2003 said:

Ariotofmyown said:

ssparks2003 said:

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

I was looking for constructive advice regards the events which have happened, am fully aware of the feedback points which were relayed back to me.
I was also querying how my contract states that the company must inform me prior to the end of the current period that it is to be extended which it hasn't as I was unawares of this until the meeting today a week afterwards and asking if they had followed protocol or not. Not getting hung up over Royal Mail as you put it. 

You was given constructive advice on how to keep this job in 2021, and the advice was to stop focusing on a non issue of whether "correct procedure" was followed as that will no save you being dismissed, and instead fix the issues on your side.

The simple fact is for the first 2 years they can get rid of you without breaking a sweat, I did this to a member of my team last week because they were not performing. One 10 min meeting with HR and the member of staff, a quick "sorry you are not performing" and a "best of luck with your future " and they were out of the door. 

And just before Christmas too. Employees do still have rights, even if they have not worked somewhere for two years. I just hope that ex-employee of yours was given reasons for dismissal in writing but whether or not they were, they can still take action against you and/or your organisation. I hope they do. Maybe then you will be able to break a sweat.

Right to written reason only if they have worked there for two years (or automatically if on maternity leave).

Ariotofmyown

MalMonroe said:

What an awful employer.

If I were you I would do two things -

Contact Acas, discuss the matter with them and ask their advice. I've found them really helpful in the past. Here is the link - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact
Citizens advice also have some info -
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/

And then I'd start looking around for a new job, asap.

Thankyou. My experience with the company has been pretty awful since I started so should be unsurprised it has come to this.
The business drafted in a large number of new starters to replace staff being made redundant and the turnover of these new staff were about 40 to 50% with staff leaving either due to be given no training or support in their new role or being misled about working hours and job role. Normal working conditions were that you would see a person one day then come in the next day and not see them ever again. 
HR were that alarmed by the number of new starters exiting the business that they interviewed all remaining new starters including myself about 8 weeks ago and I fedback my experience was consistent with the reason people were leaving no training whatsoever.
About a week after that one of my colleagues went off for a month as her mum passed away and I was asked to run her line with minimal training, I agreed to this to be helpful and be seen as flexible but regret this now as I made a mistake through my lack of training in the first 2 weeks which was then documented on my first probation report. This then carried on through changeover times when my manager then berated me for taking too long as I was allowing the machine ops training time to be shown what to do as they had no training either but this was unacceptable.
Then finally I was given the summary of my assessment centre feedback from August yesterday for the first time and was told that I had to start behaving more like I had in the assessment centre then in real life. I said it would have been helpful if this was given to me before the end of my probation if it was then going to be used against me as a reason to extend it and was unfair if then I wasn't given time to improve within this probation period? Answer given was well tough as I've only just got it. I then mentioned that the reward and recognition of helping the company when I had no training to achieve its production outputs and sales during their busiest period was this so it felt like a kick in the teeth and I was totally demoralised now. I said I had done everything the company had asked of me, my production line was outperforming the other 2 shifts so was extremely disappointing to be told this.  Ended the meeting with me asking what I needed to do made a record of this myself as nothing was forthcoming and then closed the meeting.

By talking to my colleagues and people who started at the same time as myself I know that there are a number of these who have also had their probation extended out of those who have not already left which in itself doesn't help my situation one iota but doesn't surprise me at all. 
I will be contacting ACAS and am waiting for the letter from HR as the timescales given for me to improve are effectively 2 working weeks as I was told my next review would be a month from now but the factory is shut down for Xmas so really only have 2 weeks which in my opinion isn't long enough time period.
Thanks for your reply 

oh_really

The relationship appears moribund therefore I'd plan to soften the exit as far as possible and get some serious effort into finding your next role.

Ariotofmyown

oh_really said:

The relationship appears moribund therefore I'd plan to soften the exit as far as possible and get some serious effort into finding your next role.

Which is why I have mentioned before going to HR but have been advised by other posters not to - the majority of the items I have been flagged about have been down to a fundamental lack of training and support, no further training has been either suggested or put forward, indeed I know another of my colleagues who started just before me has also had their probation extended but has been buddied up with another more experienced person after Xmas as development against one of the items they were told they needed to improve against.

oh_really

As a point of interest what's the position with trades union at this employer, I'm guessing it weak/ non existent.