Final probation meeting late, probation extended without warning

Ariotofmyown

oh_really said:

As a point of interest what's the position with trades union at this employer, I'm guessing it weak/ non existent.

You guessed correctly, yes - they don't recognise trade unions. 

74jax

Ariotofmyown said:

oh_really said:

As a point of interest what's the position with trades union at this employer, I'm guessing it weak/ non existent.

You guessed correctly, yes - they don't recognise trade unions. 

Are you a member of a union though? They would be who you would go to, not HR. 

I agree to look elsewhere, I definately wouldn't go to HR if you don't have a job lined up (if you need one lined up that is).  Try and get something and hand notice in and don't look back, leave them to sort it out.

ssparks2003

MalMonroe said:

ssparks2003 said:

Ariotofmyown said:

ssparks2003 said:

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

I was looking for constructive advice regards the events which have happened, am fully aware of the feedback points which were relayed back to me.
I was also querying how my contract states that the company must inform me prior to the end of the current period that it is to be extended which it hasn't as I was unawares of this until the meeting today a week afterwards and asking if they had followed protocol or not. Not getting hung up over Royal Mail as you put it. 

You was given constructive advice on how to keep this job in 2021, and the advice was to stop focusing on a non issue of whether "correct procedure" was followed as that will no save you being dismissed, and instead fix the issues on your side.

The simple fact is for the first 2 years they can get rid of you without breaking a sweat, I did this to a member of my team last week because they were not performing. One 10 min meeting with HR and the member of staff, a quick "sorry you are not performing" and a "best of luck with your future " and they were out of the door. 

And just before Christmas too. Employees do still have rights, even if they have not worked somewhere for two years. I just hope that ex-employee of yours was given reasons for dismissal in writing but whether or not they were, they can still take action against you and/or your organisation. I hope they do. Maybe then you will be able to break a sweat.

Christmas has exactly zero impact on the situation, they were either doing the job in line with the clear expectations of the role or they were not, the time of year is irrelevant. 

As you have already advised there is no need to provide a written reason with less than two years service,  the reasons were given verbally and the employee agreed with them, since they also knew they were not performing to an acceptable standard. 

I will not be breaking into a sweat over this, do not fear. For a long time our organisation had sideways moved poor performers leaving others to shoulder their work, luckily a new head of HR has come in and whilst increasing the benefits to the staff has also given the company the ability and support to prune low performers quickly and without pain for the managers. 

oh_really

ssparks2003:

Perhaps the issues lie within your organisation, poor recruitment, culture etc, aided by managers who are reactive, possibly with negative expectations. If there is a longstanding and ongoing issue whats the common denominator?

I accept there may be some individuals why may not perform to expectations but I sense your new HR manager approach may be counterproductive if the solution to problems is to manage them out the door.

Again guessing no/ poor TU presence.

oh_really

Ariotofmyown said:

oh_really said:

As a point of interest what's the position with trades union at this employer, I'm guessing it weak/ non existent.

You guessed correctly, yes - they don't recognise trade unions. 

Thankfully thats not up to them, if enough employees join the union can apply for statutory recognition.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/trade-union-recognition-how-to-apply-to-the-cac

TELLIT01

If staff aren't being trained properly it begs the question "Have managers been given the appropriate training?"  The way the OP describes the organisation I wouldn't be surprised if team leaders / managers are basically told they are being promoted and left to it.  That's no help to the OP but might explain the cause.

Undervalued

MalMonroe said:

ssparks2003 said:

Ariotofmyown said:

ssparks2003 said:

Perhaps you should be focusing on how you can improve, because at this moment in time if you want to keep the job that is what you need to do. You appear to have two issues raised to you before and now there is a problem with how you are managing the team.

Are you actually capable of this role? I understand in the first month or so you are learning so some latitude should be given. But you are 3 months in now, so whats the issue? Getting hung up on a letter that has not arrived in the post is not going to save you after Christmas if you don't improve. 

I was looking for constructive advice regards the events which have happened, am fully aware of the feedback points which were relayed back to me.
I was also querying how my contract states that the company must inform me prior to the end of the current period that it is to be extended which it hasn't as I was unawares of this until the meeting today a week afterwards and asking if they had followed protocol or not. Not getting hung up over Royal Mail as you put it. 

You was given constructive advice on how to keep this job in 2021, and the advice was to stop focusing on a non issue of whether "correct procedure" was followed as that will no save you being dismissed, and instead fix the issues on your side.

The simple fact is for the first 2 years they can get rid of you without breaking a sweat, I did this to a member of my team last week because they were not performing. One 10 min meeting with HR and the member of staff, a quick "sorry you are not performing" and a "best of luck with your future " and they were out of the door. 

And just before Christmas too. Employees do still have rights, even if they have not worked somewhere for two years. I just hope that ex-employee of yours was given reasons for dismissal in writing but whether or not they were, they can still take action against you and/or your organisation. I hope they do. Maybe then you will be able to break a sweat.

As has been pointed out to you before on here "rights" are only meaningful if there is a realistically accessible remedy!

As others have said on this thread, there is no right to be given "reasons for dismissal in writing" with less than two years service (unless maternity). Even with two years service there is no automatic remedy if the employer fails to provide written reasons. Under certain circumstances it might lead to a small uplift in any award made following a successful unfair dismissal claim but that is at the discretion of the tribunal. The days of automatic awards for minor technical breaches of procedure are long gone.