Redundancy and tupe

I work for a big retail company im actually hired by them but I work within a post office inside the store. They have unfortunately decided to close our store closing date of the 16th January, our store is located in the town centre and it is the only post office in the town centre. 

We were told the store was closing beginning of November, I had my first redundancy consultation this week which they informed me that someone is opening another Post office and that they may tupe some of us across or they may not as they may not want all the staff, it is up to whoever is opening the post office which staff they will like. So now I'm in limbo I will either get tupe'd across or be made redundant i have worked here for 13 years, and if made redundant will receive 2 weeks pay for every year plus 12 weeks notice pay. 

Some staff members had already arranged alternative jobs as we gathered even if another Post office did open we would get made redundant and apply for a job within the new post office if we wanted to. 

To me it seems unfair and I feel like the company I work for is just trying to avoid paying redundancy pay and not actually caring about what the staff want. As far as I know if I do get tupe'd across I have no say in the matter whether I want to work for this man or not, all we know about him is he is a he, I have no idea if he has any idea on how to run a post office or has any experience. 

I'm feeling extremely uneasy about the whole thing especially in the current economic climate. 

I had also just returned to work in August off maternity leave from having my 2nd child, I have 2 children aged 7 and 1 and I work 27hours pw and I do set days a Monday, Tuesday, Friday morning and Saturday due to having childcare in place for those days I'm worried that my new employer will be able to demand exactly what days I should work although this shift was agreed when I returned to work after maternity leave after having my 7 year old and I have worked it for the past 7 years does anyone know if that is something my new employer will be able to muck about with. 

Any one with any experience of being tupe'd please share 
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Replies

  • caelercaeler Forumite
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    Sorry you find yourself in this situation. I don’t know if TUPE applies or not. There has to be a line of sight from what work you do now to the new “provider” but given that post offices are standalone and pop up all the time servicing the same communities, I genuinely don’t know how that works, it’s a bit complex. You are clearly assigned to the post off work which is good but the second part of your connection to the new post office is tricky.  Sorry this isn’t much help, perhaps somebody else will be able to comment with more in depth knowledge. 
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  • General_GrantGeneral_Grant Forumite
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    Lexi2828 said:
    . . .    So now I'm in limbo I will either get tupe'd across or be made redundant i have worked here for 13 years, and if made redundant will receive 2 weeks pay for every year plus 12 weeks notice pay

    Some staff members had already arranged alternative jobs as we gathered even if another Post office did open we would get made redundant and apply for a job within the new post office if we wanted to. 

    To me it seems unfair and I feel like the company I work for is just trying to avoid paying redundancy pay and not actually caring about what the staff want. As far as I know if I do get tupe'd across I have no say in the matter whether I want to work for this man or not, all we know about him is he is a he, I have no idea if he has any idea on how to run a post office or has any experience.   . . .
    If you are not TUPEd you may be working for some of that 12-week notice period, depending on when they give notice to terminate your employment.  So it shouldn't be looked on as a lump sum in addition to redundancy pay.

    The employer should try to avoid paying redundancy pay - then you have a job.  Why would it be unfair for you to have a job?    Or are you concerned for your colleagues who have lined up alternative work and may miss out on redundancy pay if they have to take up the new job before they are technically dismissed on the grounds of redundancy?
  • getmore4lessgetmore4less Forumite
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    You want that 2 weeks per year redundancy to be contractual and make sure the new business owners knows they are taking on that liability.

    How many work in the store if 20 or more it is collective redundancies

    Get the Union/reps  involved and there should be consultations with the potential new employer.



  • ThrugelmirThrugelmir Forumite
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    Lexi2828 said:

    To me it seems unfair and I feel like the company I work for is just trying to avoid paying redundancy pay and not actually caring about what the staff want.
    Most people would prefer the security of an ongoing permanent job. Than a large payoff and totally uncertainty as to future job prospects. Your employers run a business and no doubt have contractual obligations with the Post Office, not least to provide a smoooth transition to the new owners. Nor will they panda to individual employee demands because it's inconvenient for them. Rather than speculate without foundation. Wait and see what the future holds. Then make an informed decision. 
  • Lexi2828Lexi2828 Forumite
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    caeler said:
    Sorry you find yourself in this situation. I don’t know if TUPE applies or not. There has to be a line of sight from what work you do now to the new “provider” but given that post offices are standalone and pop up all the time servicing the same communities, I genuinely don’t know how that works, it’s a bit complex. You are clearly assigned to the post off work which is good but the second part of your connection to the new post office is tricky.  Sorry this isn’t much help, perhaps somebody else will be able to comment with more in depth knowledge. 
    Hi, thanks for your reply. Yes its not a very nice position to be in but I should count my self lucky as I've worked here for 13 years so the majority of my adult life so far, hoping to get some answers this week about what is actually happening. 
  • Lexi2828Lexi2828 Forumite
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    Lexi2828 said:
    . . .    So now I'm in limbo I will either get tupe'd across or be made redundant i have worked here for 13 years, and if made redundant will receive 2 weeks pay for every year plus 12 weeks notice pay

    Some staff members had already arranged alternative jobs as we gathered even if another Post office did open we would get made redundant and apply for a job within the new post office if we wanted to. 

    To me it seems unfair and I feel like the company I work for is just trying to avoid paying redundancy pay and not actually caring about what the staff want. As far as I know if I do get tupe'd across I have no say in the matter whether I want to work for this man or not, all we know about him is he is a he, I have no idea if he has any idea on how to run a post office or has any experience.   . . .
    If you are not TUPEd you may be working for some of that 12-week notice period, depending on when they give notice to terminate your employment.  So it shouldn't be looked on as a lump sum in addition to redundancy pay.

    The employer should try to avoid paying redundancy pay - then you have a job.  Why would it be unfair for you to have a job?    Or are you concerned for your colleagues who have lined up alternative work and may miss out on redundancy pay if they have to take up the new job before they are technically dismissed on the grounds of redundancy?
    Hi thanks for your reply, ah that could be very true that maybe I am currently working some of my notice pay, I will ask in my next redundancy consultation.

    Yes 2 of my colleagues have already sought alternative jobs, they both do not want to leave where we currently work now how ever so I think they will just have to let down their new employer if they are tupe'd across. 

    We were basically told the store is closing you are all being made redundant, which is why they had job searched and luckily landed jobs for when we shut in mid January, I myself had been job searching and applying for a few but now I can't really job search or do anything till I know where I stand not sure when we will find out for definite no body seems to have any answers but our manager said she is hoping to have a bit more information later this week, I had just wrapped my head around losing my job and now who knows. Hopefully they don't leave us in the dark for too long so I can job hunt if needs be.
  • Lexi2828Lexi2828 Forumite
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    You want that 2 weeks per year redundancy to be contractual and make sure the new business owners knows they are taking on that liability.

    How many work in the store if 20 or more it is collective redundancies

    Get the Union/reps  involved and there should be consultations with the potential new employer.



    I will ask in my next redundancy consultation if that is possible to make the 2 weeks pay per year contractual. 

    I think the full number of staff that work their must be under 20, 6 of us in the post office and the other staff in the actual main store possibly 10 or so. 

    Unfortunately I don't think anybody who works in the post office is part of the union, my store manager did mention that he will be coming in to meet us she did say the word 'apparently so wether this happens or not we shall see. 

    Thanks for you're reply 
  • Lexi2828Lexi2828 Forumite
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    Lexi2828 said:

    To me it seems unfair and I feel like the company I work for is just trying to avoid paying redundancy pay and not actually caring about what the staff want.
    Most people would prefer the security of an ongoing permanent job. Than a large payoff and totally uncertainty as to future job prospects. Your employers run a business and no doubt have contractual obligations with the Post Office, not least to provide a smoooth transition to the new owners. Nor will they panda to individual employee demands because it's inconvenient for them. Rather than speculate without foundation. Wait and see what the future holds. Then make an informed decision. 
    If course I'd much prefer job security but as for now I don't know how secure my job would be? I was speaking to a customer today and he said that the terms and conditions of my contract which transfer with me is only valid for 2 years and after 2 years my new employer will be able to amend it to suit his/their business needs basically not sure whether this is true or not something I will have to go through in my next redundancy consultation if I even am being tupe'd. 

    Yes you're right I don't have all the information for now and I've asked the questions and will have to wait to get some answers and I can't really make a decision either way as I either will get transferred or I won't I have no say in the matter.
    I definitely cannot and would not make demands all I ask is that my hours stay the same and due to childcare reasons my days stay the same each week which was something agreed upon when I returned to work in August off maternity leave.


  • getmore4lessgetmore4less Forumite
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    There is no 2 year protection under TUPE. 

  • XbigmanXbigman Forumite
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    Some industries seem to have a standard way of handling TUPE transfers. In warehousing it's often stated that you are safe under TUPE for a year, but that's not the law. What they are actually doing is giving advance notice that you *will* get stuffed in a years time.
    The OP may have some 2 year protection that is contractual rather than legal. It's better than nothing and gives them 2 years to get a different job.



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