Noisey neighbours, friendly advice on what to do.

hopeitwill

knightstyle said:

Yes Z it used to be wonderful but as the original purchasers moved out they started letting the properties, gradually more and more became let and several problem families arrived.  Next door front garden has the smashed up front half of a renault in it, burnt out wheely bins plus piles of rubbish, hundreds of nappies etc. every few months the council come and remove stuff from the pavements but the stuff in the gardens just gets worse till they are evicted and go somewhere else, then another lot come and the cycle starts all over again.
Two families round here have moved four times that we know of and in each case the council helps with deposits etc. as they are classed as vulnerable.  Children are not looked after, still in nappies when they start school and swearing like troopers.
My advice to all is do not buy a new build or you could end up like this.

One of my worst fears is to end up having to buy a new build. We have beautiful, newly built houses next to social housing around where we live. The houses are beautiful but they are built next to the car park of the social houses. Every time we walk our dog near, there is a car playing incredibly loud music in that car park. I feel sorry for all those people who paid such exorbitant amounts of money to live next to that.

We've also seen another development where people were doing a barbecue in their front garden. Boxes and garbage all over.

And maybe out of context a little, but I feel as if people have this annoying entitlement these days. Watching videos on the bus without headphones, talking over the speaker, letting their children play games with the sound on, it's horrible. And they have that same entitlement in their homes.

Respecting each other's space has become an anomaly.

Aranyani

Zoe1345 said:

Aranyani said:

trex227 said:

pmlindyloo said:

I do think that there is a big difference between neighbours being noisy on the odd occasion and this being their lifestyle.  The latter is so much more difficult to deal with as, in effect, you are asking them to completely change their whole way of living.
Having said that I would like to suggest that the late night noise on a daily basis is just not acceptable.
You say they are a lovely family and you do not wish to fall out with them.
So, what about writing to them in a friendly way saying that you appreciate that they have a different living style to them but the noise after midnight is severely affecting you (give specific examples)
Also add what you have done to try to counter the noise - the sound proofing/ear plugs etc
Terrace houses can be a particular problem - mention this - and also add if any of your noise is affecting them to please let you know. 
Add that you hope that you can solve this amicably (a little veiled threat there) as you like them as neighbours but...................
Sometimes speaking to them face to face does not give you the opportunity to go through the exact problems and explain how they affect you as the neighbour will invariably interrupt before you can finish.  Also, tempers can get frayed.
It will take considerable skill to get the tone of the letter just right so I suggest you don't write it at 3am in the morning!
Good luck!

Great advice but if I were in Zoe1345’s position I would be a little hesitant to write a letter and “formalise” the dispute and so have to declare it when selling. 

She would already have to declare it when selling.  The question asks if you are aware of anything that could lead to a dispute, and she clearly is! 

Well not necessarily. A buyer might be more tolerant of the noise, especially if noisy themselves. Noise tolerance is indeed highly subjective... (Explified by some of the comments in this thread!) 
We weren't told before buying. 

Hmm, bit wriggly, you weren’t impressed that you weren’t told but you think it’s fine for you to do the same to someone else. 

From what you’ve described and the impact on you and your health, you clearly don’t really think this is a subjective thing that others would be fine with.

Aranyani

Zoe1345 said:

Aranyani said:

Zoe1345 said:

MovingForwards said:

I feel for you. My last rental was a living hell between the screaming banshee next door and the banging / crashing party animals above and below, made worse by lockdown when they were either on furlough or lost their jobs. I was working from home, neighbours carried on only with longer hours. My average sleep was 30 - 90 minutes generally from 5 or 6am, before trying to do a full day again.

My out was knowing I had my purchase going through, which kept me going until everything went on hold for a bit and losing that bit of hope broke me, my body gave up.

The neighbours always denied everything and said it wasn't them.

Can you bring your plans forward and move sooner? Or focus on knowing you've an out.

Thanks. That sounds horrendous. I think I'm averaging about 90-120 mins. By the time I get to sleep following the noise stopping at 3am, its generally about 4:30 (I'm so over tired by then that it takes a while) and then I'm up at 6 for work. My migraines (which it thought I'd kicked) have returned, I'm dependant on caffeine which has a huge effect on my gut, 

Kick the caffeine immediately, that will just be exacerbating your problems sleeping. 

Tanks for the "kick the caffeine" comments all. I'm aware of the negative effects of it for gut health and sleep (although there are studies that question just how much it keeps you up...). I'm slowly transitioning to decaf anyway, but I'll go mad giving it up all together. There's a psychological factor at play with the ritualistic behaviour of coffee drinkers generally which is more valuable than the caffeine hit. 

Decaf gives you the ritual, routine and the  comfort too.  You’re best going cold turkey, you’ll feel horrible for about 48 hours but then it’ll be done. 

**dancingbutterfly**

Ah I've been there OP. Not fun at all.
My first property purchase, whenever I had a viewing (3 in total over the whole process) the 60 odd year old vendors would have tv turned up loud, thought it was their age...I asked about the neighbours and they quickly brushed it off saying they've got kids, you can hear them very occasionally. Completion day, got the keys, sat on the floor in living room and cried. The noise from next door was unbelievable. Every word said,shouted, screamed, every footstep from a running child, tv, everything. The mum of the 3 little ones would scream from 6am-10pm and the kids would scream back. I was gutted. The worst childs room was next to ours and she would sleep with a film on all night. I know every word to bleeping frozen...

Spoke to her a few times, she apologised profusely, I felt sorry for her, she had no control over her own kids! The one day she asked me to tell her kids off for constantly screaming as they may listen to me! I bought all kinds of ear plugs, didn't do much good, looked into expensive soundproofing, couldn't afford it. 10 months of hell went by and I decided enough was enough and put the house on market. That day neighbour said they were moving out!!

We had already put an offer in for a detached so went for it. The new neighbours next door were much much quieter! There is no way I would ever live in an attached home again. 

Best of luck!

TLDR: Been there, only real solution in my experience is they move or you do.

Scotbot

Zoe1345 said:

knightstyle said:

No advice on what to put, we just filled them in truthfully with as little information as possible. Fortunately, knowing we would move, we hadn't reported the noise issues to any authorities.  We had reported untaxed cars and dumped furniture on the estate but the forms do not ask for that to be declared.

We haven't declared anything either or are we going to. As people have noted it's "living noise" it's subjective. But we were warned that people might try to argue we should declare as a "may cause dispute". 
Your estate sounds wonderful. I bet you're glad to be out! 

I remember an episodd of Location Location Location where Phil told a buyer that they had to expect some noise from a party wall. Anyone buying a terrace should expect to hear movements from next door especially if there are young kids. I lived in a terrace and was woken by the neighbours 2 year old when he had night terrors at 2am, fortunately it was just a phase. It's not like your naighbours are having loud parties or blasting the stereo at 3am. They are having showers and moving round the house, albeit heavily.
I am very fond of Mozart's Requiem, I consider it ethereal rather than menacing 😊

freesha

Scotbot said:

Zoe1345 said:

knightstyle said:

No advice on what to put, we just filled them in truthfully with as little information as possible. Fortunately, knowing we would move, we hadn't reported the noise issues to any authorities.  We had reported untaxed cars and dumped furniture on the estate but the forms do not ask for that to be declared.

We haven't declared anything either or are we going to. As people have noted it's "living noise" it's subjective. But we were warned that people might try to argue we should declare as a "may cause dispute". 
Your estate sounds wonderful. I bet you're glad to be out! 

I remember an episodd of Location Location Location where Phil told a buyer that they had to expect some noise from a party wall. Anyone buying a NEW terrace should expect to hear REASAONABLE movements from next door especially if there are young kids.

FTFY.

I live mid-terrace, built in the 80s, and the most we hear is them occasionally running up and down the stairs. It's not a given that you have to put up with noise if you live attached to neighbours.

I'm always amazed at the number of people on these threads that tell the OP to suck it up. Why should they have to?

theoretica

Zoe1345 said:

Aranyani said:

Zoe1345 said:

Aranyani said:

Perhaps you should start sleeping in a room that doesn’t connect to their bathroom? 

Yes, I would, if there were one big enough for our bed. Alas we dont have the luxury of 2+ double bedrooms. Pretty certain for most people this would be the first thing they'd consider! Even so, the sound reverberates through that entire side of the house, so unless I wanted to sleep on our staircase or in our bathroom then it would be difficult...

I'm sorry to have upset you so much with my suggestion! 

In my experience terraced houses generally have good room sizes, 2 big square rooms downstairs and 2 big square rooms upstairs, with one slightly smaller due to an added bathroom.  Is yours not of this design?  Even if the smaller bedroom isn't really a proper double if it just fits the bed you could still sleep in it and have your wardrobes and so on still in the big room.  Even if the sound carries there too it wouldn't be as bad?

I'd be curious to know what you moving around and your activities of living sound like to them.  With such poor soundproofing they must hear you too sometimes.  Have you ever invited one of them to come over and listen to what the running shower sounds like from your side of the wall?  What sort of hours do they work?

Not at all upset. Just baffled that you'd assume I may not have thought of this as an option, if it was. Terrace houses vary wildly in design and size - ever been in a 6 bed townhouse in bath, or a back to back up north? Wildly different doesn't even begin to cut it. We have 3 rooms. 1 room, is only just big enough for a small single. This is the only room on the other side of the house. I don't think myself and my 6ft husband will be fitting in there. The biggest room is the one we sleep in, the other is my husband's office, he runs a business from home. Both of these room side onto the vampire - elephant neighbours.

If I had your situation I would try camping out in the small single (or even living room floor or wherever in the house is quietest)  to see if it works to get some better sleep now and then even if you and your husband have to alternate nights. 

Gio22

Zoe1345 said:

We've been living in our new place for a while now, and are having horrendous trouble with the neighbours noise.
Their bathroom sides onto our bedroom and the noise from their shower is horrendous. They are also serial door slammers, and stomp/run up their wooden stairs continuously which run up our living room wall (it's a terrace). The worst part is, both parents and teenagers don't go to bed until the early hours and they shower and crash around in the bathroom between midnight and 2 am keeping us awake... Every night. 

I've politely spoke to them a couple of times now, and they are always apologetic. They're a nice family. But it hasn't got any better. 
Frankly, it's driving me and my husband insane and is doing my health no good as I'm hardly getting any sleep, have constant fatigue, and can't concentrate on work day to day. I'm incredibly close to moving back to my parents house just for a few nights kip. 

It so terrible that I feel like there is no way that the previous owner, an old lady, and her family, would have not been bothered by it or aware of it. 

I want to ask the neighbours whether it caused an issue with the last owner, but doubt I will get a truthful answer. We found out shortly after moving in that they fell out, but never found out why. Had it been from the noise and there been a mention of noise from the sellers (probate sale by the family) then we would have investigated further and we might not have purchased in all honesty. I also don't want to kick up too much of a fuss as we now want to sell within a year, but I'm concerned that if I go digging for info from them, and we dont mention the noise level when we come to sell then we might get in trouble for it later on. 

Do I ask them whether the old neighbour complained at all? Do k talk to them AGAIN in a more stern manner this time to drill the point home? Or Do we grin and bare it for another year (the thought alone gives me a headache) and say nothing so as not to cause a fuss, and stay schtum when we sell??

Part of me wants to start a noise war - I could be rather partially to some heavy metal music at 6am - but our neighbours the other side are so quiet that I really don't want to upset them in the process! 

I completely feel you. I have the same issue, but in my case I do have constant people in an out from the apartment below mine... sometimes I think they are dealing drugs as I can't explain the daily amount of cars and people at the property. The owner is ok, but the constant amount of people every evening is just hard to tolerate. We hear them slamming doors continuously, knocking the windows and speaking loud. Soon the flat above will be sold and I have already noticed that I can hear almost everything and my walls make a cracking noise when people walk upstairs ( I hope this will be better when they will move with furniture etc so they will fill up the place). On the other hand, the management company of the building is completely rubbish. The neighbours are so inconsiderate leaving the rubbish on the ground and animals spread it all over the communal area and using our communal bin instead of theirs. I have reported my downstairs neighbours to the police and the council once, and the management company to the redress scheme. I am aware  that I will need to declare all of it, that's why now I will try to endure this situation for another year and a half. It is just so annoying having all of this issues at the same time. This area could have been great and I am so frustrated that I put a lot of effort in buying this flat...which is an horrible experience for me that I cannot call home. Currently I am living constantly with earphones and  earplugs as it is impossible for me to ignore them.  Do not feel lonely you are not!  

Gio22

Zoe1345 said:

trex227 said:

I don’t think there’s any point trying to find out if the previous owner had issues with the noise due to the fact it was a probate sale. Even if you get the neighbours to confirm they had a dispute with the previous owner over the noise, how would you prove the executors who sold the property were aware? Probate sales are often limited title guarantee on the basis the seller doesn’t have personal knowledge of the property so unless there is some documented evidence involving the executor in the dispute I don’t think there will be any legal recourse there 

Yes this was the way I was thinking in this respect. Plausible deniability. There are a number of issues we have faced that the sellers didn't declare, yet we have put it down to them having recourse to deny knowledge. I do know that the sellers (the owners children) knew the neighbours well, and it seems they were also caught up in the "great falling out" that we have been made aware of. Any opinion on what approach we should take when we sell? We really cannot take much of a financial hit due to this. 

There is a TA6 form in the conveyancing process which obliges the seller to declare if any dispute has ever took place. Obviously, to prove that you will need to investigate a bit. Ask the police and the council. You will need to fill two forms, wait around a month and if there are any reported disputes you can press charges to the seller. She is legally liable for what she has stated. 
When you will sell, as long as you or your neighbours were never been involved in official disputes, you are not obliged to declare anything. Your conveyancer will anyway assure you on any further doubts you might have. 

Norman_Castle

Scotbot said:

Zoe1345 said:

knightstyle said:

No advice on what to put, we just filled them in truthfully with as little information as possible. Fortunately, knowing we would move, we hadn't reported the noise issues to any authorities.  We had reported untaxed cars and dumped furniture on the estate but the forms do not ask for that to be declared.

We haven't declared anything either or are we going to. As people have noted it's "living noise" it's subjective. But we were warned that people might try to argue we should declare as a "may cause dispute". 
Your estate sounds wonderful. I bet you're glad to be out! 

I remember an episodd of Location Location Location where Phil told a buyer that they had to expect some noise from a party wall. Anyone buying a terrace should expect to hear movements from next door especially if there are young kids.

 Anyone buying or renting any attached property should also expect to modify their behaviour if necessary to avoid their noise becoming an unwelcome burden on their neighbours. From experience people who excuse their excessive noise as acceptable change their mind when it is matched and they are expected to live with it.