Lidl = 3rd Wave? 25 November 2020 at 10:34AM in Praise, vent & warnings 23 replies 1.4K views

dogshome

As an elderly couple we are very aware of Covid risk and now shop once a fortnight instead of weekly - Our nearest supermarket is a Morrison store and I was impressed by the level of their precautions.

At entry there is a trolley disinfection station, hand sanitizer, a guardian checking customers for Face Masks and hand sanitizer dispensers all around the store.

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On the other side of town there is a Lidl store which we occasionally visit as at Seasonal Holiday times they stock a Luxury range of Oven Ready foods, so having done our Morrison shop we went to Lidl's to get an Entree dish for our just-for-two Xmas lunch, only to find the Covid precautions were almost Zero

No Trolley disinfection either outside or inside the store - No Hand was dispensers anywhere - Some shelf fill staff wandering around without masks - Till staff unmasked with a protective screen of a height that ends below the customers faces.

The only 'protection' in place was a couple of signs to observe social distancing

This is 'Front of House', heaven only knows what is, or is not, going on behind the scenes 

  

Penguin_

Can't comment on any other Lidl apart from my local one which is the only supermarket I use. They have a sanitising station between the 2 sets of doors you go through & hand dispensers dotted around the store. Their screens are fixed from the counter to probably 8 ft high as they are well above my height. 

dogshome

Interesting - It appears that protection levels could be down to the individual store manager

jon81uk

Don't forget you are significantly more likely to get covid from aerosol transmission, there hasn't really been any cases of people getting it from surfaces. Wiping down of things is not as important. People who are asymptomatic wearing masks and good ventilation are much more important.

I would worry more about keeping 2m from people and others wearing masks than about wiping trolley handles.

dogshome

" there hasn't really been any cases of people getting it from surfaces" ! ?

I'm sure that bus operators, train companies and all the other Co's spending money on Covid hygene would love to cut out the cost, but the scientific studies show that the virus can stay live for days on hard surfaces.

It's all about assessing the level of risk, age and health condition - The teen to 30 year olds who caused tier 2 by whooping it up after Tier1 ended, were probably only slightly ill if they caught Covid - Though they may have killed their Parents/Grandparents after staggering home

Yes, we are elderly and I was a boy in WW11, but even then we went to the shelter if the air raid was only dropping incendiary bombs instead of High Explosives and Land Mines

JamoLew

jon81uk said:

Don't forget you are significantly more likely to get covid from aerosol transmission, there hasn't really been any cases of people getting it from surfaces. Wiping down of things is not as important. People who are asymptomatic wearing masks and good ventilation are much more important.

I would worry more about keeping 2m from people and others wearing masks than about wiping trolley handles.

Can you link you evidence for this please - I'm sure the NHS would be delighted to not be spending millions on unnecessary precautions

jon81uk

JamoLew said:

jon81uk said:

Don't forget you are significantly more likely to get covid from aerosol transmission, there hasn't really been any cases of people getting it from surfaces. Wiping down of things is not as important. People who are asymptomatic wearing masks and good ventilation are much more important.

I would worry more about keeping 2m from people and others wearing masks than about wiping trolley handles.

Can you link you evidence for this please - I'm sure the NHS would be delighted to not be spending millions on unnecessary precautions

Hospitals are very different environments, the NHS was already spending on extra cleaning due to MRSA and other virus and bugs present in hospitals.

This is a great article on why masks and ventilation are important
Aerosol transmission of Covid-19: A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air | Society | EL PAÍS in English (elpais.com)

and regarding particles on contaminated surfaces (fomites) it linked to Transmission of COVID-19 (europa.eu), which states
"Indirect transmission through fomites that have been contaminated by respiratory secretions is considered possible, although, so far, transmission through fomites has not been documented."

So it is possible but transmission through contaminated surfaces has not been documents. So in a venue such as a supermarket, it is good advice to be more concerned about aersol transmission (so masks, ventilation and distancing are important )  than it is about surfaces.
In a hospital I would still be concerned about surfaces and regular hand washing and cleaning for other reasons such as MRSA as well as covid.

calleyw

JamoLew said:

jon81uk said:

Don't forget you are significantly more likely to get covid from aerosol transmission, there hasn't really been any cases of people getting it from surfaces. Wiping down of things is not as important. People who are asymptomatic wearing masks and good ventilation are much more important.

I would worry more about keeping 2m from people and others wearing masks than about wiping trolley handles.

Can you link you evidence for this please - I'm sure the NHS would be delighted to not be spending millions on unnecessary precautions

It seems to be a minor risk not a nil risk.  But better to keep hygiene standards up by cleaning surfaces and washing hands on a regular basis.  And some of these articles back up what jon81uk has said there has been no know recorded cases of catching it from surfaces.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-can-spread-surfaces-scientists-say-people-remain/

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/surfaces-coronavirus-covid-touching-risk-19052174

https://www.medicaldaily.com/most-covid-19-infections-spread-air-not-surfaces-456172

https://www.wired.com/story/its-time-to-talk-about-covid-19-and-surfaces-again/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-surfaces-groceries-packages-playgrounds-1.5645602  this one is from july!!!!

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf also from july

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/surface-wipes-contamination-covid/2020/10/22/41c77e28-13c3-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html

I could go on but got bored now looking at links

Yours

Calley x

jon81uk

dogshome said:

" there hasn't really been any cases of people getting it from surfaces" ! ?

I'm sure that bus operators, train companies and all the other Co's spending money on Covid hygene would love to cut out the cost, but the scientific studies show that the virus can stay live for days on hard surfaces.

It's all about assessing the level of risk, age and health condition - The teen to 30 year olds who caused tier 2 by whooping it up after Tier1 ended, were probably only slightly ill if they caught Covid - Though they may have killed their Parents/Grandparents after staggering home

Yes, we are elderly and I was a boy in WW11, but even then we went to the shelter if the air raid was only dropping incendiary bombs instead of High Explosives and Land Mines

It might be the enhanced cleaning is why there is low or zero transmission from surfaces, the fact the virus can survive doesn't mean people are getting ill from those sources. The bigger risk is transmission from aerosols, as in this article by the European centre for disease control Transmission of COVID-19 (europa.eu)
Many places have actually cut back on the amount of cleaning and focused in other areas such as perspex screens or enforcement of masks or enhanced ventilation rather than lots of cleaning.

jon81uk

Basically though what I meant was don't get so hung up on cleaning that you then forget about distancing and keeping away from people who don't have a mask on.

molerat

My Lidl is fine apart from all the baskets and cardboard displays in the middle of the aisles, it is the customers that are the bigger problem. What I am gonna do though is get myself a lanyard as judging by the actions of people wearing them they must be the best protection from the virus, no need to distance or follow any of the sneezing or coughing protocols.  I can't see why the government have not issued the whole population with one each.