BITCOIN

MeteredOut

All very interesting, but for all the rhetoric, BTC is still priced in dollars, bought in dollars and solid in dollars (other currencies are available). It's not, and is a long way off, even laying a glove on fiat, never mind it being a fiat killer.

It's still a speculative investment, not an alternative to fiat. And even serious often investors like to include a little bit of that in their portfolios, particularly if they have customers who will pay them fees to provide such intstruments.

RolandFlagg

The 13F filings have been incredible to see.

Over 1,000 firms including a Pension firm have invested in the ETFs and 11 out of the top 25 hedge funds.
And this is just the beginning.
9x the amount invested into Bitcoin ETF than Gold ETFs.

The game has changed.

Follow the two Bloomberg ETF guys on X.
They are down to earth guys and have been amazed at the level of success of the Bitcoin ETFs.

Just from the first quarter of filings:



Slowly....then all at once.

MeteredOut

RolandFlagg said:

The 13F filings have been incredible to see.

Over 1,000 firms including a Pension firm have invested in the ETFs and 11 out of the top 25 hedge funds.
And this is just the beginning.
9x the amount invested into Bitcoin ETF than Gold ETFs.

The game has changed.

Follow the two Bloomberg ETF guys on X.
They are down to earth guys and have been amazed at the level of success of the Bitcoin ETFs.

Just from the first quarter of filings:



Slowly....then all at once.

The choice of words people use always gives a great insight into their internal biases (and we all have them).

"Yes" and "Not Yet" instead of "Yes" and "No" indicates whatever is being reported is not impartial.

But, no surprise that investors will put a tiny percentage (and it is a tiny percentage) of their assets in more risky areas of the market, partly because of hedging, some commercial FOMO (no fund manager wants to be the one amongst their peers that doesn't follow the crowd), and because they have clients who are asking for such a product, and they'd be fools to not offer it when others are.

thegentleway

MeteredOut said:

RolandFlagg said:

The 13F filings have been incredible to see.

Over 1,000 firms including a Pension firm have invested in the ETFs and 11 out of the top 25 hedge funds.
And this is just the beginning.
9x the amount invested into Bitcoin ETF than Gold ETFs.

The game has changed.

Follow the two Bloomberg ETF guys on X.
They are down to earth guys and have been amazed at the level of success of the Bitcoin ETFs.

Just from the first quarter of filings:



Slowly....then all at once.

But, no surprise that investors will put a tiny percentage (and it is a tiny percentage) of their assets in more risky areas of the market.

What’s the %?

MeteredOut

thegentleway said:

MeteredOut said:

RolandFlagg said:

The 13F filings have been incredible to see.

Over 1,000 firms including a Pension firm have invested in the ETFs and 11 out of the top 25 hedge funds.
And this is just the beginning.
9x the amount invested into Bitcoin ETF than Gold ETFs.

The game has changed.

Follow the two Bloomberg ETF guys on X.
They are down to earth guys and have been amazed at the level of success of the Bitcoin ETFs.

Just from the first quarter of filings:



Slowly....then all at once.

But, no surprise that investors will put a tiny percentage (and it is a tiny percentage) of their assets in more risky areas of the market.

What’s the %?

The outlier from the list above seems to be Millennium, based on quantity (but I've not looked at any others):

https://www.dlnews.com/articles/markets/morgan-stanley-millennium-invest-millions-in-bitcoin-etfs 

That article states bought $2B last quarter, and had $61B assets under management as of last December (google now says thats $64B). So, a little over 3%.

But, it also states:

"A hedge fund like Millennium likely uses the position as part of a broader trading strategy and not necessarily to hold the asset long-term."

So, it could be that they have offloaded an amount when BTC reached its all time high 5 weeks ago, ahead of the halving.

My thinking is that hedge fundings buying BTC is less of an indicator of cryptos acceptance by the big boys than, say, a pension fund buying the same percentage stakeholding. By definition, a hedge fund cross-pollinates their investments from across the market in order to insulate returns.

Adyinvestment

UK spot Bitcoin ETP's to begin trading on the LSE next week.

https://www.ft.com/content/76e9ecf3-4429-42c5-a945-43ab92abfda4

Professional/institutions only though, unlike the US and most of Europe our government has not deemed them fit for retail yet, they must think it is safer for us to buy the real thing from the countless unprotected exchanges out there...

lookbook

In short if you like gambling this is for you. 

onomatopoeia99

I mentioned some way up this topic I mined some crypto using my gaming PC over 10 years ago.  Today I successfully transferred it out of Bitcoin Core where it hs always been in a wallet.dat file and into an exchange, mainly as I want to sell it to create a CGT liability before the budget and potential changes to allowances or rates.

I know it has no value / is a tulip / south sea bond / etc etc, but ignoring that, do any of the experts here know if it is treated like shares and I have to wait 31 days before I can repurchase, should I decide to do so? And supplemental question would be if I could use the money from the sale to buy a different coin immediatey? 

EDIT - I have found HMRC have guidance on this https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-pay-tax-when-you-sell-cryptoassets

Veteransaver

Adyinvestment said:

UK spot Bitcoin ETP's to begin trading on the LSE next week.

https://www.ft.com/content/76e9ecf3-4429-42c5-a945-43ab92abfda4

Professional/institutions only though, unlike the US and most of Europe our government has not deemed them fit for retail yet, they must think it is safer for us to buy the real thing from the countless unprotected exchanges out there...

Odd argument, buying the "real thing" is unregulated too, so no, the FCA do not think it is safer

Scottex99

onomatopoeia99 said:

I mentioned some way up this topic I mined some crypto using my gaming PC over 10 years ago.  Today I successfully transferred it out of Bitcoin Core where it hs always been in a wallet.dat file and into an exchange, mainly as I want to sell it to create a CGT liability before the budget and potential changes to allowances or rates.

I know it has no value / is a tulip / south sea bond / etc etc, but ignoring that, do any of the experts here know if it is treated like shares and I have to wait 31 days before I can repurchase, should I decide to do so? And supplemental question would be if I could use the money from the sale to buy a different coin immediatey? 

EDIT - I have found HMRC have guidance on this https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-pay-tax-when-you-sell-cryptoassets

Congrats, not many are able to recover BTC from that far back.

Trading into fiat or into other coins triggers a taxable event, as it says in the link