BITCOIN

Malthusian

So if Canadians and other people in first world countries don't need to hold Bitcoin to avoid the threat of "confiscation of money and seizure of assets", as is being inflicted on innocent bros in Canada, why do they need it again? To hodl until number go up?

Nobody's rights are being suspended without due process. There is a legal process available to appeal an asset freeze. If a court imposes an unjust asset freeze on you, you can either file an appeal, or flee to Dubai and post "I use bitcoin muthafluffers" memes on Telegram.

The amusing thing about that Nunchuk raspberry to the Ontario Superior Court - "When the Canadian dollar becomes worthless, we will be here to serve you too" - is that they won't be. When the Canadian dollar becomes worthless, the clueless, impoverished noobs of the Ontario Superior Court won't be able to do any business with Nunchuk, because they won't have anything to exchange for crypto to put on Nunchuk.

Zola.

Topical

https://world.hey.com/dhh/i-was-wrong-we-need-crypto-587ccb03

I still can't believe that this is the protest that would prove every Bitcoin crank a prophet. And for me to have to slice a piece of humble pie, and admit that I was wrong on crypto's fundamental necessity in Western democracies.

Adyinvestment

Malthusian said:

Nobody's rights are being suspended without due process. There is a legal process available to appeal an asset freeze. If a court imposes an unjust asset freeze on you, you can either file an appeal, or flee to Dubai and post "I use bitcoin muthafluffers" memes on Telegram.

Not really of much help if your bank account is frozen with all your money, and you don't have the money to pay for a lawyer or food.

All this has done is convince me to get some Bitcoin on a ledger (and I am sure many others around the world), at the very least they would have to go to court first before they could get their hands on my Bitcoin.

I don't care much about the protest but do you honestly think it is correct for innocent donors to have their bank accounts frozen? take the case of the below single low wage working mum who donated $50 (while it was legal) who now has her bank account frozen.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mp-mark-strahl-convoy-protest-briane-bank-account-frozen-1.6360132

Justin Trudeau is the new poster boy for Bitcoin self custody.

bugbyte_2

Zola. said:

Topical

https://world.hey.com/dhh/i-was-wrong-we-need-crypto-587ccb03

I still can't believe that this is the protest that would prove every Bitcoin crank a prophet. And for me to have to slice a piece of humble pie, and admit that I was wrong on crypto's fundamental necessity in Western democracies.

Interesting take. Clearly JT appears to be off on a tangent and its up to Canada's population to decide on his future.

I still believe that if you expect the Government to show tolerance then people protesting must also recognise their responsibilities, otherwise any dipwand group (stole the election) with a grudge could grind us all to a halt. I read an article on how America post Trump was now ungovernable as the population had been conditioned to show no tolerance or acceptance of others views, and are therefore in a constant state of conflict. This Canadian issue is just an extension of that. No one ever compromises or acts for the greater good anymore. Politicians including our own have a hell of a lot to answer for.

UK wise, Account Freezing Orders appear to be a quick and easy way to do roughly the same thing, and appear to be quite wide spread. https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/criminal-law-blog/met-police-appetite-for-account-freezing-orders-undimmed-by-pandemic

I'm not passing judgement on whether this is good or bad BTW, just saying it already happens. Crypto won't save you, as it is treated as property and can therefore be a frozen asset. The only way out of this is to go back to an honourable code of conduct where if politicians lie or screw up they resign, and the rest of us care enough about our fellow humans that we don't intentionally make each others lives a misery. If we did that, then none of this would have happened.

Scottex99

The difference being that it can only be frozen during the on/off ramp with fiat (by the bank) or if you hold your assets in a centralised exchange and they embargo you with the help of Coinbase etc. 

To actually freeze your crypto they would need your seed phrase so I guess they could torture you for it or you could tell them it. If you don’t tell them it they can track your wallet(s) using blockchain analytics and follow the coins but once you use a mixer or tornado cash or something then the trail ends.

A bit pedantic but in reality nobody can confiscate your BTC/Crypto if you don’t want them to

Malthusian

Adyinvestment said:

Not really of much help if your bank account is frozen with all your money, and you don't have the money to pay for a lawyer or food.

Nor is Bitcoin. Good luck getting the local corner shop to accept your meme tokens. And lawyers don't accept laundered money. Not ones an innocent victim of government caprice would use anyway. If your assets were frozen unjustly they would bill you and take payment once they were unfrozen, not violate anti money laundering rules by taking money you'd hidden away.

I don't care much about the protest but do you honestly think it is correct for innocent donors to have their bank accounts frozen? 

No. But lie down with dogs, get fleas. I'm reminded of the trustafarians who joined the 2011 London riots because it seemed like a lark and then whinged when they ended up with criminal records.

If a single mother on minimum wage actually was scammed into sending $50 she couldn't afford to sovereign citizen bros because she thought the revolution was coming, and had her account frozen on top of losing $50, then that's very sad, but I don't lay the blame at the feet of the Canadian government.

I would note that the Mounties and the Ottawa police have suggested that "Brianne from B.C." who had her account frozen for donating $50 she didn't have only exists in the imagination of the Conservative MP who told her story. There was no Brianne from BC on the Ottawa police's list of donors and the Mounties stated they only provided banks with the names of "influencers", not mere donors. Only 200 people had their accounts frozen.

But whether you believe coppers or a right-wing politician is up to you.

Anyway, the fundamental issue from the perspective of this thread is not whether Trudeau is being heavy handed in cracking down on the lorry drivers, but:

• is Bitcoin essential to the man on the street so he can access his money if the Government freezes his assets. Answer: no, because to be any use in that scenario you have to be prepared to uproot yourself, leave your community and your job and flee to a country without an extradition treaty where you can spend your Bitcoins. Which very few people are prepared to do, especially innocent ones. If you don't flee Bitcoin helps very little, as very few people will accept your dirty money until you have cleared your name, and the Government can simply jail you, issue you with an order for the confiscation of your tokens, and leave you there until you pay up.
  
• Will number go up as innocent people concerned about the threat of Government oppression rush to buy Bitcoins. Answer: no, because there aren't enough of them. If a Government is oppressing people the vast majority of the population will support the Government, as we've seen throughout history.
  

Hexane

Deleted_User said:

Invested in a little bit to give it a try. That was when it was at it's last peak - since then it's plummeted again. But It was only £100 that I can afford to lose so I'll leave it there and see what happens. 

perfect

Hexane

Hexane said:

Deleted_User said:

Invested in a little bit to give it a try. That was when it was at it's last peak - since then it's plummeted again. But It was only £100 that I can afford to lose so I'll leave it there and see what happens. 

perfect

Just so we can check in later, one bitcoin is allegedly worth US$34,815.26 right now.

That's slightly down on the estimation of our regular commentator Scott, who works in the industry, and assured us months ago (when bitcoin was around US$60,000) that it was going to US$100,000 really soon.

and those other people who..., yeah them.

I guess if you bought bitcoin based on Scott's prediction, then you lost about half your money so far.

But you could win it all back, right?

User232002

Hexane said:

Hexane said:

Deleted_User said:

Invested in a little bit to give it a try. That was when it was at it's last peak - since then it's plummeted again. But It was only £100 that I can afford to lose so I'll leave it there and see what happens. 

perfect

Just so we can check in later, one bitcoin is allegedly worth US$34,815.26 right now.

That's slightly down on the estimation of our regular commentator Scott, who works in the industry, and assured us months ago (when bitcoin was around US$60,000) that it was going to US$100,000 really soon.

and those other people who..., yeah them.

I guess if you bought bitcoin based on Scott's prediction, then you lost about half your money so far.

But you could win it all back, right?

It really is like groundhog day...

To add some nuance, it seemed a high probability that BTC would breach $100k 6 to 12 months ago. The world we currently live in is very different and I don't think any Bitcoiner is seriously saying that the price will hit $100k within the next 6 to 12 months. It also happens in the stock market, as there are plenty of billion dollar companies currently down more than BTC over the last few months. 

That said, over the last 12 months its been declared legal tender by a nation state with several others seemingly not so far behind. Several bills are being introduced to legalise/recognise it in several US states. Institutional adoption continues to increase, the finances of western nations are still in the toilet and Canada has done a great job of pointing out to everyone why people in the west also need Bitcoin. Millenials will continue to inherit the Earth, and they prefer crypto over RE and Equities. The macro picture is pretty damn rosy and far better than Feb 2020 when the price was also $35k.

No Bitcoiner here is saying it will be $X by Y date. If you want dumb price predictions then there are plenty of places you can find them online. As far as I've seen, the general opinion propagated here by pro-Bitcoiners is that whilst we expect Bitcoin to be far higher in 5 to 10 years, we have no idea when or how it will get there. 

Scottex99

Yep what Darren said.

How are your stonks doing today Hexane, mate? 

Go and find the post where I assured anything because it won’t exist. I said at least 10 times that we’re going to $100k, which we still are. 

I did actually think we had a good chance by end of 2021, and then early Feb? We hit $69k which remains the ATH to date. We’ll get past that again at some point.

We’re all adults, wether it’s crypto or funds you know it’s a long term play unless you’re trying to scalp and day trade which inevitably means using leverage and then getting rekt. I don’t see a better long term play than BTC or ETH right now.

Nice to chat, I must dash now, there’s a dip to buy