ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE/ REDUNDANCY NOTICE PERIOD

thebrexitunicorn

getmore4less said:

What have you told ACAS that you have not mentioned here that makes them think you have a case?

Acas don’t decide whether anyone has a strong case.  They have to accept all notifications and requests for early conciliation, regardless of the perceived strengths or weaknesses of a case.  

spitfire1964

Whilst I accept my take on notice was wrong, failure to follow correct process before ending an employment contract if proven would amount to unfair dismissal, whether or not the end result would be the outcome in any event.
What you are claiming in respect of, it does not matter you were going to be made redundant any way is like saying you were going to get sack for bad time keeping but we will just ignore the verbal warnings, writing warnings process because you are going to get the sack in any event.
As for my Union they have identified unfair dismissal that evidence would clearly suggest will be the case here.

getmore4less

Not the same, but you have your union on the case they can explain the difference and guide you through the process.

thebrexitunicorn

spitfire1964 said:

Whilst I accept my take on notice was wrong, failure to follow correct process before ending an employment contract if proven would amount to unfair dismissal, whether or not the end result would be the outcome in any event.
What you are claiming in respect of, it does not matter you were going to be made redundant any way is like saying you were going to get sack for bad time keeping but we will just ignore the verbal warnings, writing warnings process because you are going to get the sack in any event.
As for my Union they have identified unfair dismissal that evidence would clearly suggest will be the case here.

I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here.  A tribunal can decide that the dismissal is unfair because the redundancy procedure was flawed  but if they believe that it would have happened anyway even with a fair process the award would be zero. 

spitfire1964

It matters not whether or not the employee would have been sacked/made redundant in any event.
If the employer does not follow the correct protocol it will be deemed unfair dismissal and a Tribunal will award compensation as a result.
You need to realize that making an employee redundant is the same as sacking an employee and thats how the Tribunal will view it, if the protocol is not correctly followed the employee can claim unfair dismissal.
You seem to be picking when compensation can be awarded, im afraid it does not quite work that way.
Unfair dismissal can be determined in a number of ways, whether the employer was going to rid the employee as it has been suggested is evidently misleading imo.

thebrexitunicorn

spitfire1964 said:

It matters not whether or not the employee would have been sacked/made redundant in any event.
If the employer does not follow the correct protocol it will be deemed unfair dismissal and a Tribunal will award compensation

The above is incorrect. I suggest you read up on Polkey deduction.  You are right that a dismissal for reason of redundancy is a dismissal.  If a tribunal decides that the dismissal would have happened anyway, even with a fair process any award will reflect this. 

spitfire1964

Unfair dismissal means just that
Whether or not it was going to happen makes no difference what so ever as you are incorrectly advocating.
Add to that you are only technically sacked made redundant after the third consultation?
Any reductions which is denied would be covered on the grounds that because the employer has failed to consiliate this matter through ACAS when that invitation was giving the Tribunal has the right to increase any compensation award by upto 25%.
Judges see Tribunals as an absolutely last result, and if they feel one party has not covered all avenues to prevent a Tribunal Hearing as is the case here, more likely than not they will adjudged that party acting unreasonable, accordingly. 

getmore4less

There is no requirement for 3 individual consultation meetings.
Was this collective consultation 20 or more?

getmore4less

spitfire1964 said:

I have requested and in writing my employment right to put in for a grievance,  but the company have refused me that opportunity.
They are claiming that I need to appeal the redundancy as a means of the concerns raised under the grievance letter to be considered.
I do not wish to appeal their decision to make me redundant, I have now secured alternative employment.

They can counter your claim 
 
because the employer has failed to consiliate this matter through ACAS

With the the employee failed to engage in the previous part of the process which is to appeal the process/redundancy

spitfire1964

The appeal which was arranged by the employer has proceeded, and with no surprise the employer still feels the terminations of contract was handled correctly.
However prior to the Appeal Hearing proceeding I said if the Appeal proceeded, which it did, the Company would be putting me at an obvious disadvantage because (a) they had denied me any right i had a raise a grievance, and thereafter adduced the findings from the grievance on which I could rely on in an Appear Hearing (b) the Company at the time of Appeal had failed to give the needed answers that i had raised in regards to Consultation 3.
In a nutshell it is evidently clear that the Company on appeal only considered the evidence THEY felt was necessary to consider but at the same time knowing full well that they were quite deliberately withholding evidence that i could and should have been able to rely on that would show their actions in respect of making me redundant would not only undermine the decision to terminate my contract of employment, but it would also establish that on this occasion they are more than responsible as to unfairly dismissing me of which I am fairly confident an Employment Tribunal will also adjudged that as being the case, imo