EICR Report Rip Off??

MM2002

Hi All

I was contacted by my property management company to say I need to get an EICR report done on the property I've rented out for the past 8 years. The house itself was built by Wimpey in 1999, and as such I feel should be compliant with todays standards, having a modern consumer unit etc.

The report (That cost me £115)has returned with 12 findings. 5- Code C2's,  5 code C3's and 2 Uncoded as below and a bill for the works to be carried out at £465!!!!:-

To get a 2nd opinion will cost me again so I need to know, where do I stand, Is this new certificate compulsory, and is the price quoted reasonable? What are my options please?

Code2- Potentially dangerous

1..RCD does not trip in permitted times at X5.

2..DB  : 6.1 Additional protection for all low voltage (LV) circuits by RCD not exceeding 30 mA (701.411.3.3)

3..Immersion switch is cracked.

4..Garage centre pendent wiring is very tight putting terminations under strain.

5..DB  : 4.3 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of IP rating etc (416.2) - Top of the DB/CU has an unused opening exceeding IP4X with no access to liveparts (416.2.2)

Code 3 Improvement recommended

6..DB  : 5.1 Identification of conductors (514.3.1) - Line conductor(s) incorrectly identified by colour code (incorrect Line conductor colour used) (514.3.1(i))

7..DB  : 5.12.3 for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202; 522.6.203)

8..Top floor smoke detector has its CPC not terminated.

9..Back boxes are not all bonded.

10..DB  : 4.4 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.201; 526.5) - The DB/CU has excessive hole in the rear of the enclosure fixed toflammable surface and has signs of thermal damage (527.1.1;651.2 (ii))

Uncoded

11..No surge protection.

12..No AFDD protection.

I look forward to your replies

MM2002

ProDave

1: Rcd is faulty, replace it.

3: It's broken, replace it.

4: Simple re connection

5: it's dangerous, fix it or replace it

The one I take issue with is 2:  This is probably lighting circuits that don't have an RCD.  It is NOT mandatory to upgrade them, this should be a C3, BUT it could be done for not much cost by fitting rcbo's for those circuits.

All the C3's are only advisory.

Uncoded:  there is no requirement at the moment to fit AFDD's or surge protection.

tacpot12

The new requirements for rented properties are that the electrical installation is safe. Your property management company was right to alert you to the need to have an EICR and to ensure that the installation is safe.

If there are no C1s, then the installation is safe, but no responsible landlord would leave most of the C2 unattended; items 1, 3, 4, and 5 should be attended to. Item 2 does not need to be resolved; the installation is safe in spite of not having RCD protection for all LV circuits. (It would be safer if it had this, but it is not unsafe). 

To be honest, the most worrying item on the list is item 10; the unexplained thermal damage. It would as well to contract for the repairs to the items above and to have tightness of all terminations in the DB checked (if a new DB is not to be fitted). The electrician will need a calibrated torque screwdriver and information from the manufacturers, but you don't need a new DB. 

As the 18th Edition of the Regulations was only issued in 2018, it is extremely unlikely that an installation from 1999 will comply with these regulations. £115 is a very reasonable price to pay for an EICR, especially one that has been done thoroughly and refers you to the specific regulations that the installation does not comply with. 

It's not clear from your post what issues will be fixed for the £465, but if the electrician is going to supply and fit a metal consumer unit for that price, it's a really good price. I would go back to them and agree what is to be fixed, and get an updated price and get the work done asap. 

Hasbeen

MM2002 said:

Hi All

I was contacted by my property management company to say I need to get an EICR report done on the property I've rented out for the past 8 years. The house itself was built by Wimpey in 1999, and as such I feel should be compliant with todays standards, having a modern consumer unit etc.

The report (That cost me £115)has returned with 12 findings. 5- Code C2's,  5 code C3's and 2 Uncoded as below and a bill for the works to be carried out at £465!!!!:-

To get a 2nd opinion will cost me again so I need to know, where do I stand, Is this new certificate compulsory, and is the price quoted reasonable? What are my options please?

Code2- Potentially dangerous

1..RCD does not trip in permitted times at X5.

2..DB  : 6.1 Additional protection for all low voltage (LV) circuits by RCD not exceeding 30 mA (701.411.3.3)

3..Immersion switch is cracked.

4..Garage centre pendent wiring is very tight putting terminations under strain.

5..DB  : 4.3 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of IP rating etc (416.2) - Top of the DB/CU has an unused opening exceeding IP4X with no access to liveparts (416.2.2)

Code 3 Improvement recommended

6..DB  : 5.1 Identification of conductors (514.3.1) - Line conductor(s) incorrectly identified by colour code (incorrect Line conductor colour used) (514.3.1(i))

7..DB  : 5.12.3 for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202; 522.6.203)

8..Top floor smoke detector has its CPC not terminated.

9..Back boxes are not all bonded.

10..DB  : 4.4 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.201; 526.5) - The DB/CU has excessive hole in the rear of the enclosure fixed toflammable surface and has signs of thermal damage (527.1.1;651.2 (ii))

Uncoded

11..No surge protection.

12..No AFDD protection.

I look forward to your replies

MM2002

You are renting or renting out?

Some info below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

MM2002

ProDave said:

1: Rcd is faulty, replace it.

3: It's broken, replace it.

4: Simple re connection

5: it's dangerous, fix it or replace it

The one I take issue with is 2:  This is probably lighting circuits that don't have an RCD.  It is NOT mandatory to upgrade them, this should be a C3, BUT it could be done for not much cost by fitting rcbo's for those circuits.

All the C3's are only advisory.

Uncoded:  there is no requirement at the moment to fit AFDD's or surge protection.

So, costing??

Item 1 - £20?

Item 3 -£5

Item 4 -Labour cost only

Item 5 ??? no idea

MM2002

tacpot12 said:

The new requirements for rented properties are that the electrical installation is safe. Your property management company was right to alert you to the need to have an EICR and to ensure that the installation is safe.

If there are no C1s, then the installation is safe, but no responsible landlord would leave most of the C2 unattended; items 1, 3, 4, and 5 should be attended to. Item 2 does not need to be resolved; the installation is safe in spite of not having RCD protection for all LV circuits. (It would be safer if it had this, but it is not unsafe). 

To be honest, the most worrying item on the list is item 10; the unexplained thermal damage. It would as well to contract for the repairs to the items above and to have tightness of all terminations in the DB checked (if a new DB is not to be fitted). The electrician will need a calibrated torque screwdriver and information from the manufacturers, but you don't need a new DB. 

As the 18th Edition of the Regulations was only issued in 2018, it is extremely unlikely that an installation from 1999 will comply with these regulations. £115 is a very reasonable price to pay for an EICR, especially one that has been done thoroughly and refers you to the specific regulations that the installation does not comply with. 

It's not clear from your post what issues will be fixed for the £465, but if the electrician is going to supply and fit a metal consumer unit for that price, it's a really good price. I would go back to them and agree what is to be fixed, and get an updated price and get the work done asap. 

Many thanks Tacpot12

So with no C1's am I compliant with the safety regulations? Can he issue the cert without remedial action? I know the electrics are all safe, as it was a new build house and nothing has been moved.

I will get the cracked immersion switch and RCD changed, but tight cables into consumer unit? Shouldnt this go back to the builder? Its hardley dangerous, as all cables are secure.

He has said he would fit a metal consumer unit, but really? is this neccesary with the consumer fitted being 20 years old?

On speaking to him, he quoted the consumer unit(in the garage) is on battens that I can put my hand behind, possibly getting a shock, and moving the unit will be the same cost as replacing.

It feels to me like an MOT station 'trying it on', knowing I can't get a 2nd opinion without additional cost.

Thanks for your opinion and advice, again, I look forward to your reply

MM2002

AdrianC

MM2002 said:

The house itself was built by Wimpey in 1999, and as such I feel should be compliant with todays standards, having a modern consumer unit etc. 

Nope, not a bit of it.
When the property was built in 1999, the then-current wiring regulations were the 16th edition, 3rd amendment.
The 16th edition had three more amendments before the 17th edition was released in 2008.
We are currently on the 18th edition (2018), 1st amendment (this February).

So, no, a 1999 install is nowhere near the current regs.

But that's beside the point.
The EICR is not a check for standards compliance. It's a check of condition. The clue is in the name. That is what you paid £115 for.
Your wiring has not exactly passed with distinction. While not actively dangerous, there are a number of serious defects. Rectifying those is what you've been quoted/charged £465 for.

SaverRate

£465 for a consumer unit change is a very good price! I think we paid £750 for ours (ours included a few sockets etc being added though)

Hasbeen

OP at least to get your property up to current standards it would be wise to repair/replace.

The consumer unit would be the most costly.

But it will be a " plastic " type unit from the 90s that can catch fire and melt.

Metal units are fitted these days.

It is a good price but get quotes.

anselld

MM2002 said:

tacpot12 said:

The new requirements for rented properties are that the electrical installation is safe. Your property management company was right to alert you to the need to have an EICR and to ensure that the installation is safe.

If there are no C1s, then the installation is safe, but no responsible landlord would leave most of the C2 unattended; items 1, 3, 4, and 5 should be attended to. Item 2 does not need to be resolved; the installation is safe in spite of not having RCD protection for all LV circuits. (It would be safer if it had this, but it is not unsafe). 

To be honest, the most worrying item on the list is item 10; the unexplained thermal damage. It would as well to contract for the repairs to the items above and to have tightness of all terminations in the DB checked (if a new DB is not to be fitted). The electrician will need a calibrated torque screwdriver and information from the manufacturers, but you don't need a new DB. 

As the 18th Edition of the Regulations was only issued in 2018, it is extremely unlikely that an installation from 1999 will comply with these regulations. £115 is a very reasonable price to pay for an EICR, especially one that has been done thoroughly and refers you to the specific regulations that the installation does not comply with. 

It's not clear from your post what issues will be fixed for the £465, but if the electrician is going to supply and fit a metal consumer unit for that price, it's a really good price. I would go back to them and agree what is to be fixed, and get an updated price and get the work done asap. 

Many thanks Tacpot12

So with no C1's am I compliant with the safety regulations? Can he issue the cert without remedial action? I know the electrics are all safe, as it was a new build house and nothing has been moved. 

You need to fix the C1 and C2 in order to get a "satisfactory" certificate and that is the requirement now for new tenancies and from 1 April 2021 for existing tenancies.  The rest are advisory only.
It was safe to the standard it was built to at the time.  It is not safe to todays standard as far as rental is concerned.

MM2002

Than you all for your comments. I at first thought I was being ripped off, but you have put my mind to rest. It is indeed a plastic consumer unit at the moment. Crazy how standards change so quickly. It wasn’t long ago I was changing fuse ‘wire’ bought in Woolworths and screwing it in the bakalite holders lol!!
I’ll pay the dosh and shut up. 

Thanks again guys, 
MM2002