Trader adding fee's.

Arthurspike

We agreed with a trader to do some work, and gave him a substantial amount to buy the goods needed. A date was agreed for the work to take place. 
He didn't turn up to do the job, and told us that it was due to delays in Ireland and delivery. 
What he was ordering is widely available in the uk. And alarm bells were ringing. 
He refused to divulge who his supplier was, or provide a proper receipt for our deposit. And despite demanding a proof of the actual order he has refused to reply.
He has told trading standards that he has offered us a way out by giving him £900.00 in shipping, handling and admin fees. 
Can he just suddenly magic up a sum afterwards? 
He hadn't told us the sum, so we have heard it from trading standards. 
There were no t's and c's on the quote we agreed to. 

tacpot12

No, he can't require an additional payment unless the T&Cs provide for this, which they don't as they don't exist. 
I would suggest that you send him a Letter before Action (LBA) that politely asks him to get in touch to see what can be worked out. You will be happier if you can agree when work will start and that you don't have to pay any more. (I would never give him more money). 

You don't get a say where he orders his supplies from. You engaged him to source the goods. If you wanted the job, you should have negotiated this. 

He has missed the deadline for work to start and unless he can give you a reasonable estimate of when work will start, you would be entitled to your money back. However, you knew he was ordering materials with your money, and normally if materials have to be returned there would a restocking fee of circa 15% (but sometimes this can be as much as 25%). If the materials are being custom made, and you knew this, you might not be entitled to any refund. I would suggest that if you can get back 75% of your money for materials you would as well to settle for this.

You should ask him in the LBA if there is any Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) process he would be prepared to engage with if you can't agree between you want will happen. 

Arthurspike

Thank you tacpot12. 
He has not responded to any letters, or emails, and has blocked our calls. No response to asking for his ADR  scheme. We don't believe he has ever actually ordered the goods. We have since found out that he is already being taken to court for other work. Should the shipping, handling, and admin fee's all have been itemised on his quote?

Aylesbury_Duck

Arthurspike said:

Thank you tacpot12. 
He has not responded to any letters, or emails, and has blocked our calls. No response to asking for his ADR  scheme. We don't believe he has ever actually ordered the goods. We have since found out that he is already being taken to court for other work. Should the shipping, handling, and admin fee's all have been itemised on his quote?

Yes, they should have been. One important question: Were you definitely given a quote, or was it an estimate?  The two are different.

I'm sorry to say your money is gone so it looks like court action is inevitable, if he's taken proactive action to block your calls.

eddddy

It sounds like the trader is claiming that you breached the contract - perhaps because he feels that you instructed him to do some work and then you changed your mind.

And therefore, he expects you to pay his consequential losses of £900.

However, you believe that the trader breached the contract by not turning up on the agreed date.

So if you go to court, it would probably be a case of...

• You providing a statement explaining why you believe the trader breached the contract
• The trader providing a statement explaining why he believes that you breached the contract

Ant the court would decide on the balance of probabilities - based on the facts and/or who they believe is telling the truth.

unholyangel

eddddy said:

It sounds like the trader is claiming that you breached the contract - perhaps because he feels that you instructed him to do some work and then you changed your mind.

And therefore, he expects you to pay his consequential losses of £900.

However, you believe that the trader breached the contract by not turning up on the agreed date.

So if you go to court, it would probably be a case of...

• You providing a statement explaining why you believe the trader breached the contract
• The trader providing a statement explaining why he believes that you breached the contract

Ant the court would decide on the balance of probabilities - based on the facts and/or who they believe is telling the truth.

Those aren't consequential (aka indirect) losses, they're direct losses. 

A direct loss is one where it would be obvious to the world at large that such a breach could cause such a loss. 
A indirect (or consequential) loss is one that doesn't arise in the natural course and instead is down to special/specific circumstances. These are only recoverable if the special/specific circumstances were in contemplation of the parties at the time. 

Any other loss is deemed too remote. 

Op how did you enter the contract with the trader and what's the exact timeline?

Arthurspike

The contract, was done via email. Initially it was agreed in March, but with lockdown etc, we gave the trader 5 weeks notice that we would postpone. He hadn't placed an order at that point, and so no money was paid. He is now saying we cancelled this, and messed him around. 
He was re contacted and paid £3,500, agreeing a date to install 3 weeks after. It took 3 attempts to get acknowledgement of him having the money, and he has refused to give us a proper invoice. After not turning up, he told us the order was delayed due to covid. We asked for an invoice, and that he shared who the order was with. As we found it strange that it was supposedly coming from Ireland, when they are manufactured in Aylesbury. He didn't reply. He told us it would be another 7 - 10 days. After 2 weeks, over 5 weeks in total from our payment, he still hadn't returned phone calls and emails. We sought advice and have written letters / emails, but he has only replied with he was willing to give a full refund, if we cancelled, minus shipping etc, but didn't inform us of any figures, or reasoning. (These orders are generally free delivery) .
However he has sent trading standards an email, with the filled in shipping, handling, etc. 
It is a big mess, but he seems to be a compulsive liar. Surely he would have to justify these costs? ( And actually inform us!)
Thank you 

prettywowers

Trader adding fee's.
OP adding unnecessary apostrophe's. 
Sigh.

Aylesbury_Duck

prettywowers said:

Trader adding fee's.
OP adding unnecessary apostrophe's. 
Sigh.

Maybe the character limit cut him off, and it was supposed to say "Trader adding fee's unfair."?

Maybe...

unholyangel

Arthurspike said:

The contract, was done via email. Initially it was agreed in March, but with lockdown etc, we gave the trader 5 weeks notice that we would postpone. He hadn't placed an order at that point, and so no money was paid. He is now saying we cancelled this, and messed him around. 
He was re contacted and paid £3,500, agreeing a date to install 3 weeks after. It took 3 attempts to get acknowledgement of him having the money, and he has refused to give us a proper invoice. After not turning up, he told us the order was delayed due to covid. We asked for an invoice, and that he shared who the order was with. As we found it strange that it was supposedly coming from Ireland, when they are manufactured in Aylesbury. He didn't reply. He told us it would be another 7 - 10 days. After 2 weeks, over 5 weeks in total from our payment, he still hadn't returned phone calls and emails. We sought advice and have written letters / emails, but he has only replied with he was willing to give a full refund, if we cancelled, minus shipping etc, but didn't inform us of any figures, or reasoning. (These orders are generally free delivery) .
However he has sent trading standards an email, with the filled in shipping, handling, etc. 
It is a big mess, but he seems to be a compulsive liar. Surely he would have to justify these costs? ( And actually inform us!)
Thank you 

What information did he give you in durable medium? Email is durable (but links to websites sent via email are not). 

By law, they're required to provide certain information before you're bound by the contract. This includes that you have the right to cancel for a minimum of 14 days without any liability unless you expressly request that the service begin within the cancellation period. If the trader fails to meet this requirement, the cancellation period is extended up to a maximum of 1 year & 14 days. 

Arthurspike

prettywowers said:

Trader adding fee's.
OP adding unnecessary apostrophe's. 
Sigh.

Bit of an unnecessary comment really.