FTSE tracker

TBC15

Another_Saver said:

TBC15 said:

The FTSE 100 is a Jurassic index, to be avoided at all costs.

Rather that than the S&P 500 full of dot com valuation consumer electronics and media companies, and healthcare companies that won't be around when the US inevitably switches to public healthcare.

So what's the relative performance over say 10yrs?

Another_Saver

Steve182 said:

Another_Saver said:

Steve182 said:

Another_Saver said:

Steve182 said:

I would not track a crap index like FTSE100
FTSE250 maybe....but not my first choice
Do a bit more research before investing.
Look at some stats for the past 50 years or whenever. Maybe take five 10 year periods? covering 70-80, 80-90, 90-00, 00-10 and 10-20 or any period you like
Find some stats on FTSE 100 TR
then find stats on FTSE 250 TR
Definitely don't overlook the S & P 500. TR stats with and without inflation can be found on this site  - https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/
Maybe also look at Nasdaq, MSCI
Then decide.....

The FTSE 100 is a market cap weighted index of the 100 largest companies in the UK.
The S&P 500 is a market cap weighted index of the largest 500 companies in the US.
The long term performance of the UK and US stock markets has been the same.
The 100 index is smaller, a little more concentrated, a little less diverse and contains a different mix of companies, but to assert without explanation or substantiation that's it crap is... Silly... Especially at a time when the UK is the cheapest major market in the world and the US is firmly in dot com bubble territory.

The long term performance of the UK and US stock markets has CERTAINLY NOT been the same as is evident to anyone spending a little time to do their own research.

/
UK 1900-2019 9.8%
US 1900-2019 9.8%
🤷‍♂️
The UK dataset becomes less reliable before 1930, the US data before 1926.
What research did I evidently miss?

During the timeline that I suggested in my original reply, 1970 to 2020, how have they compared?  That's surely more relevant to an investor today to what the marked did 100 years ago. 
If you go back further I'm aware that the US markets performed less well, certainly they suffered more during the great depression. Perhaps I should have clarified that timeline in my last comment, but I didn't consider what happened >50 years ago relevant to this thread. 

You're suggesting giving more weight to more recent performance as an indicator of the future, i.e. limiting the dataset you refer to because the recent past is more like the present than the distant present. That's like a historian saying only the past 50 years is relevant to modern history students. It is a limitation on understanding not an enhancement.
But since you asked, I only have year end data available hence the Dec 1969 start.
US Dec 1969 - Sep 2020 10.5%
UK Dec 1969 - Sep 2020 10.7%

Steve182

TBC15 said:

Another_Saver said:

TBC15 said:

The FTSE 100 is a Jurassic index, to be avoided at all costs.

Rather that than the S&P 500 full of dot com valuation consumer electronics and media companies, and healthcare companies that won't be around when the US inevitably switches to public healthcare.

So what's the relative performance over say 10yrs?

Last decade the difference has been massively in favour of S & P 500
This is to 2018. You will find something more recent if you persevere on Google I'm sure. The trend has continued in the same direction since then, but that's no indication of what will happen next...

Another_Saver

TBC15 said:

Another_Saver said:

TBC15 said:

The FTSE 100 is a Jurassic index, to be avoided at all costs.

Rather that than the S&P 500 full of dot com valuation consumer electronics and media companies, and healthcare companies that won't be around when the US inevitably switches to public healthcare.

So what's the relative performance over say 10yrs?

Crap, but past performance and long-term view and all that.

NottinghamKnight

Where have I heard all this before.......

Linton

TBC15 said:

Another_Saver said:

TBC15 said:

The FTSE 100 is a Jurassic index, to be avoided at all costs.

Rather that than the S&P 500 full of dot com valuation consumer electronics and media companies, and healthcare companies that won't be around when the US inevitably switches to public healthcare.

So what's the relative performance over say 10yrs?

Perhaps a rhetorical question but I will answer anyway....
Looking at the performance of a FTS100 and an S&P500 ETF with income reinvested over the past 10 years:
FTSE100: 44.6%
S&P500: 312.6%

Another_Saver

NottinghamKnight said:

Where have I heard all this before.......

Just presenting a fact-based contrary opinion, otherwise this place would be an echo chamber of people agreeing with each other.
"The great moves are usually greeted by yawns" Warren Buffett

Another_Saver

Steve182 said:

TBC15 said:

Another_Saver said:

TBC15 said:

The FTSE 100 is a Jurassic index, to be avoided at all costs.

Rather that than the S&P 500 full of dot com valuation consumer electronics and media companies, and healthcare companies that won't be around when the US inevitably switches to public healthcare.

So what's the relative performance over say 10yrs?

Last decade the difference has been massively in favour of S & P 500
This is to 2018. You will find something more recent if you persevere on Google I'm sure. The trend has continued in the same direction since then, but that's no indication of what will happen next...

For convenience let's use year end 2009 to year-end 2019. This is far too short a time period to infer anything from.

The S&P returned 13.3%, the FTSE 100 7.39%, hardly a bad run, just less good. All figures are annualised.
The gap is 5.50%
The FTSE's PE fell from 17.78 to 16.45, -.78% pa
The S&P's PE rose from 20.7 to 24.88 +1.86% pa
So 2.66% of the gap is explained by relative speculation or rerating, leaving 2.77% explained by additional earnings growth in the US. Both countries inflation rates and corporate profits/GDP ratios were comparable and during this period the US experienced a significant corporate tax cut. The 2000s had also been a worse decade for US earnings than the UK, so a reversion to the mean was to be expected.
I don't see a trend, I see volatility, opportunity and value.
Edit: this isn't just the UK, the US has outperformed just about everything except bitcoin and Tesla in the last decade and year to date.

Thrugelmir

NottinghamKnight said:

Where have I heard all this before.......

Shortly before the Nikkei crashed. What's the famous saying. 
“Bull markets are born on pessimism, grown on scepticism, mature on optimism, and die on euphoria.”

Steve182

Another_Saver said:

Steve182 said:

TBC15 said:

Another_Saver said:

TBC15 said:

The FTSE 100 is a Jurassic index, to be avoided at all costs.

Rather that than the S&P 500 full of dot com valuation consumer electronics and media companies, and healthcare companies that won't be around when the US inevitably switches to public healthcare.

So what's the relative performance over say 10yrs?

Last decade the difference has been massively in favour of S & P 500
This is to 2018. You will find something more recent if you persevere on Google I'm sure. The trend has continued in the same direction since then, but that's no indication of what will happen next...

For convenience let's use year end 2009 to year-end 2019. This is far too short a time period to infer anything from.

The S&P returned 13.3%, the FTSE 100 7.39%, hardly a bad run, just less good. All figures are annualised.
The gap is 5.50%
The FTSE's PE fell from 17.78 to 16.45, -.78% pa
The S&P's PE rose from 20.7 to 24.88 +1.86% pa
So 2.66% of the gap is explained by relative speculation or rerating, leaving 2.77% explained by additional earnings growth in the US. Both countries inflation rates and corporate profits/GDP ratios were comparable and during this period the US experienced a significant corporate tax cut. The 2000s had also been a worse decade for US earnings than the UK, so a reversion to the mean was to be expected.
I don't see a trend, I see volatility, opportunity and value.

I disagree,

I just think we're not doing so well here in the UK.
Over the pond they've created companies like Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft etc etc etc etc

In China Jack Ma had Alibaba and now has Ant, Richard Liu has JD.
Apple alone is worth the same as the whole FTSE100

OK large cap we have AZN, GSK etc but nothing much of interest to invest in, just lots of dinosaurs in FTSE100

In the 250 and allshare it's a bit more interesting but we've created nothing scalable. 
A real shame, but that's just how it is.

We had the biggest navy in the world once, and the pound was worth >$4.
Is this all part of a cycle that's going to reverse in the coming years? I think not and I'm not putting my money on it happening.

About 10% of my portfolio is invested in the UK. I think that's the maximum sensible amount. The main investment opportunities are now elsewhere, and that may not necessarily be in the US.