DWP checking Claimants bank account details

Jack_bauer24

Does anyone know if it's true regarding the latest news that DWP are going to allow to check Universal Credit claimants bank account? is that not personal? not that I have anything to hide, I just think it's private that's all. 

Emmia

Jack_bauer24 said:

Does anyone know if it's true regarding the latest news that DWP are going to allow to check Universal Credit claimants bank account? is that not personal? not that I have anything to hide, I just think it's private that's all. 

They'll have powers to do this as part of fraud investigations etc. I imagine there will be an element of random checks (e.g. of accounts and claimants social media) as well as deeper investigations if something gets thrown up.

Benefit fraud is a crime, so they need to be able to investigate allegations, and potentially prosecute / seize assets etc.

Galloglass

Emmia said:

Jack_bauer24 said:

Does anyone know if it's true regarding the latest news that DWP are going to allow to check Universal Credit claimants bank account? is that not personal? not that I have anything to hide, I just think it's private that's all. 

They'll have powers to do this as part of fraud investigations etc. I imagine there will be an element of random checks (e.g. of accounts and claimants social media) as well as deeper investigations if something gets thrown up.

Benefit fraud is a crime, so they need to be able to investigate allegations, and potentially prosecute / seize assets etc.

Happen to know that they will call holiday companies to confirm not only to confirm dates of a holiday, but how it was paid, and who paid it, and from what account.

A government reserves powers for itself, not available to others as you will know if you saw the legislation going through parliament allowing certain parts of the state to commit crimes.

Emmia

Galloglass said:

A government reserves powers for itself, not available to others as you will know if you saw the legislation going through parliament allowing certain parts of the state to commit crimes.

Once legislation is passed allowing something, is it still a crime? Legally...no? Morally... perhaps?

I'm quite aware of the types of legislation - but the current government has an overwhelming majority and therefore a mandate from the people.

TELLIT01

Jack_bauer24 said:

Does anyone know if it's true regarding the latest news that DWP are going to allow to check Universal Credit claimants bank account? is that not personal? not that I have anything to hide, I just think it's private that's all. 

DWP already have the authority to access bank accounts if they think fraud is being committed.  The change to the law may make some people think twice before providing inaccurate information.  Anybody claiming income related benefits such as UC has a duty to provide full details about their savings/capital so bank account information is not private.

calcotti

The exchange in committee on this subject is here https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1093/html/

Fortnite_hero

Just as HMRC can have bank details to check someone's income I see no reason why DWP should not have the same powers.
  HMRC have powers to get information from mobile phone providers and the like so I would imagine DWP will go the same way.

calcotti

Fortnite_hero said:

Just as HMRC can have bank details to check someone's income I see no reason why DWP should not have the same powers.
  HMRC have powers to get information from mobile phone providers and the like so I would imagine DWP will go the same way.

Currently HMRC have a process to go through to obtain personal information. https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/articles/2020/08/can-hmrc-check-personal-bank-accounts/. It seems they are seeking easier access and it appears that DWP are also seeking blanket access.

GHolmesAdmin

Having worked for various of these departments the only time an investigation was launched was after someone was reported by a 'friend' neighbour etc, the vast majority of these reports are malicious but once made there's a legal obligation to investigate, even the person who made the report cannot stop it if they change their minds and many tried when they regretted their heat of the moment actions. What they can do and what they have the personpower to do are two different things. There is next to no random checking especially now. However there is sheer bad luck sometimes - I do remember one poor sod who was caught out when his lorry crashed into the car of a housing benefits employee, she looked him up on the system and found the address he had given her had a woman claiming as a single occupant living there...

Jack_bauer24

Thanks for all your replies. I am currently on Universal Credit but I have signed off sick till December as I got my sick note extended yesterday as my mental health isn't good. What I want to know, I have Sky digital but once this comes into force where DWP check bank accounts and they see I am paying Sky, will they reduce my payments? or has it got nothing to do with them what I spend my money on? Sky is the only thing keeping me entertain at the moment as I record my soaps. 

calcotti

Jack_bauer24 said:

Thanks for all your replies. I am currently on Universal Credit but I have signed off sick till December as I got my sick note extended yesterday as my mental health isn't good. What I want to know, I have Sky digital but once this comes into force where DWP check bank accounts and they see I am paying Sky, will they reduce my payments? or has it got nothing to do with them what I spend my money on? Sky is the only thing keeping me entertain at the moment as I record my soaps. 

They are not interested in what people spend their money on - you can spend your benefit income on whatever you want. What they are interested in primarily is being able to check whether people have capital which should be taken into account but has not been disclosed (whether deliberately or otherwise).

As previously advised the exchange in committee on this subject is here https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1093/html/

Q4                Chair: Let me ask a question relating to that unpacking, because the Department forecast 6.4% Universal Credit overpayments in 2019-20 but it was 9.4%. As I understand it, most of the difference was payments that should not have been made because of claimants’ savings. How hopeful are you of getting on top of that issue specifically?

Peter Schofield: That is one of the biggest challenges. It is not the only one but it is one of the biggest challenges.Capital savings, as you referred to, Chair, accounted for 2.8% of the 9.4%. Of course in tax credits there are no capital limits, so that is one of the interesting challenges in this space. We are finding that the loss because of capital is higher than we have anticipated it being, but there is a lot of work going on here. The first thing is to make it easier for claimants to be able to disclose that they have a change in capital. That has been quite difficult in the system. We have changed that and made it easier. With all of these areas, the first thing is to make it easier for claimants to tell us about a change in circumstance, putting the onus on them.

The second thing is understanding whether we can get better access to data on bank account details, in the same way as we have brilliant access to data from the PAYE system for earnings. We have a proof of concept with a bank, using some of our existing powers to enable us to access data on bank deposits. That has shown some pretty good results.The challenge is that we probably need new legislation to enable us to get the bulk transfer of data to enable us to do this at a reasonable scale to make a big difference. We are working across with other Government Departments who have a similar interest to us in being able to do this. We are working with the Cabinet Office to see what case can be made for potentially additional legislation to enable us to make a difference here.

Q5                Chair: So it will require additional legislation to get across it?

Peter Schofield: I think so. As I say, some of the things we are doing to make it easier for people to disclose their bank account savings position may help.