Another Storage Heater Thread

supermario64

Apologies in advance! I know this is a common topic and I've read most of the threads here, but still left without knowing exactly what to do and the people in this forum are always extremely helpful.

Let me explain the context: I've purchased a 1 bedroom flat about 5 years ago. It was built in 1989 and I suppose all of the heating components are from that time.
I'm currently on an Economy 7 tariff, have a water cylinder with immersion heater components that turns on overnight. The heating is done via storage heaters.
No problem with the water setup and overall the bills aren't astronomical (the max is 80 p.m during winter and avg 45 during the summer - the whole flat is electric only. we're two people living here). The problem really are the CREDA storage heaters, extremely old and something that has never really worked properly. I've had this as something I need to address: given COVID and increase in WFH I'll be spending the whole day at home and the need to keep the house warm during the day is greater. So I thought it's time I address this. 

I have three storage heaters. A small one in the hall that has never worked, one in the living room and one in the bedroom. I'm going to admit: I understood the concept of storage heaters but never really utilised it properly, only turned on the "convection" part of the heater 1-2 hours during the night or when I needed it. I've now investigated how my particular model operates and something isn't right: for the living room storage heater, although I have the input set to the max (6) it doesn't seem to store any energy, and doesn't release any heat whether I dial the left knob (OUTPUT) up or down. The only way I get heat is if I turn on the convection heat.

The bedroom storage heater doesn't have a convection switch on the side, but if I turn on the electric switch on the wall its connected to it'll immediately release heat (even if it wasn't on during the night - so don't think it's heat from stored energy). The smaller storage heater in the corridor seems dead even if I switch the plug it's connected to. All the plugs the storage heaters are connected to have the neon red light on. The living room one is connected to two plugs (I imagine one is the 24h rate and the other the E7).

Right now my theory is that when E7 kicks in the storage heaters simply don't "know" or get "turned on" and start storing energy. The odd thing is the bedroom one which will give me heat at any point.

Anyway, sorry to bore you with the details, this is where I'm at:

1 - Should I replace these 30 year old heaters and for what kind of system? After all the research I've learnt that there's really no system considerably more efficient, and it's all about using cheaper electricity during the night or just using less heat overall (I've recently improved the house insulation by getting double glazed windows). At the end I realised I should just get new storage heaters but then it seemed odd replacing one thing for exactly the same thing?

2 - Is there anything obviously wrong that I might be missing with my heaters? And if not, in this scenario would it be worth trying to fix them or are they so old you wouldn't consider it? Pains me to pay for an electrician to come and check this out and then charge me without being able to help - maybe they'd even consider me silly to try to salvage something this old?

Would love to know how you'd handle this situation and what you'd recommend!

Thanks in advance.

Gerry1

Sounds like the 'bedroom storage heater' isn't a storage heater, probably just a convector.  If you could pick it up by yourself it's not a storage heater.  NSHs in bedrooms aren't usually a good idea because they're at their warmest when you're asleep, which could be uncomfortable, hence the use of convectors or suchlike for occasional use when going to bed and getting up.

The living room NSH may have a faulty thermostat which is cheap and easy to fix, or the elements may all have failed.  That's less likely but still relatively cheap and easy to fix.  The red light for the storage heating supply should only light up overnight.  If it's on a 24h supply it will bankrupt you.

Check the consumer unit and make sure the E7 circuits haven't tripped out.  Also make sure the immersion heater is only using E7: any heater halfway up the tank (possibly labelled Boost) should be left permanently switched off unless you've messed up and need half a tank of expensive hot water during the day.

supermario64

Gerry1 said:

Sounds like the 'bedroom storage heater' isn't a storage heater, probably just a convector.  If you could pick it up by yourself it's not a storage heater.  NSHs in bedrooms aren't usually a good idea because they're at their warmest when you're asleep, which could be uncomfortable, hence the use of convectors or suchlike for occasional use when going to bed and getting up.

The living room NSH may have a faulty thermostat which is cheap and easy to fix, or the elements may all have failed.  That's less likely but still relatively cheap and easy to fix.  The red light for the storage heating supply should only light up overnight.  If it's on a 24h supply it will bankrupt you.

Check the consumer unit and make sure the E7 circuits haven't tripped out.  Also make sure the immersion heater is only using E7: any heater halfway up the tank (possibly labelled Boost) should be left permanently switched off unless you've messed up and need half a tank of expensive hot water during the day.

Thanks for the response!

Regarding the bedroom heater, that is a good guess, but there's a sticker that says "model 79141". Googling "creda model 79141" it does seem like it's a storage heater. It also input and output knobs - just strange that as soon as I switch the electric plug it's connected and it starts heating immediately (and it's odd it only connects to one plug instead of two like in the living room). Shame I can't find actual manuals online.

I wonder if it is indeed something related with the E7 circuit / setup as well, since both plugs the living room heater is connected to have a red light if the switch is flicked up - from what I understand the E7 switch should only light up when offpeak starts.

Thanks for the tip on the water heater. As you said the immersion heater on the top is only activated if I turn on boost and the bottom one is timer activated. At least something is working properly

Gerry1

If both supplies to an NSH have neons lit during the day it sounds like you have an E7 meter but you don't have any switched circuits that it controls.  That means everything will work 24h if it's switched on.  Old style box of bricks storage heaters need only one supply, switched by the E7 meter, but presumably the previous owner was a cheapskate and switched them on before going to bed and off in the morning.  Or just didn't understand.

Modern ones are better insulated and use a fan to blow the heat out when it's needed.  They also need a 24h supply to do this, and it can also power them up at expensive daytime rates as a top up if the afternoon or evening gets too chilly.

Clever modern ones (e.g. Dimplex Quantum) can also be programmed to work only from a 24h supply, but it's important that it shadows the E7 meter hours closely otherwise you'll go bankrupt because daytime E7 is even more expensive than single rate.

If the lower immersion heater is on a 24h supply (another example of a cheapskate former owner) do make sure it's correctly slaved to the cheap rate period of your meter, noting that a teleswitch can change by +/15 minutes.  A cheap motorised timer can be thrown out of kilter by a power cut, so check it frequently to avoid bill shock..  Don't forget that some E7 meters have a two-hour daytime rate interval in the middle of the night.

A photo of the meter and teleswitch would help.

macman

The one in the bedroom does not appear to be connected to the E7 switched supply, so the only part working is the convector element. Though I'm surprised that a 30 year old NSH would have a dual supply: they are a relatively new development.

Gerry1

macman said:

Though I'm surprised that a 30 year old NSH would have a dual supply: they are a relatively new development.

I suspect they were relatively common because it's very cheap just to add a heating element outside the bricks together with a switch and a simple thermostat.  It gets rid of complaints in late autumn and early spring when full-on NSH would be a bit wasteful but a boost is handy when getting up and going to bed, and when a sudden chilly snap catches people out.  It was a bit of a no brainer really.

macman

But were these really around in 1989? Dual supply only became compulsory for new installs  under Lot-20 in 2018.

tim_p

macman said:

Though I'm surprised that a 30 year old NSH would have a dual supply: they are a relatively new development.

Pretty sure they’re not that new. My mothers place has a couple of dual supply NSH and they have to be at least 20 years old, if not a few more.  Pretty sure too that if the 24hr supply is off the E7 bit won’t work either. 

Gerry1

macman said:

But were these really around in 1989? Dual supply only became compulsory for new installs  under Lot-20 in 2018.

Presumably Lot-20 relates to fans being needed during the day to blow the heat out so that better insulation can reduce the heat wasted at times when it's not needed?  That's a completely different principle to merely bolting on a cheap convector.  The manufacturer didn't have to pay for the extra wiring and the flexibility would have increased sales.

macman

Just beats me why someone would fit a dual supply NSH and then only connect the boost side? Utterly pointless and expensive. Pics of the meter and NSH's would benefit us here.

Gerry1

macman said:

Just beats me why someone would fit a dual supply NSH and then only connect the boost side? Utterly pointless and expensive.

Perhaps the builder/developer was a cheapskate or, more likely, had little knowledge of storage heaters and their electrical circuit requirements.  Could well have subcontracted everything to a 'hardware' supplier who in turn sub-contracted the wiring to a sparks.

If the sparks had merely been told to provide ring mains and circuits for lighting, room and immersion heaters, then he would be losing money if he exceeded the requirements by providing dual supplies for the NSHs.  Indeed, the NSHs may not even have been in situ during the wiring work, so he may not have known that some needed a dual supply, or he may not even have known that they were storage heaters.

Also, there was no internet worth speaking of back in 1989, so it wouldn't have been easy for people to find out information in areas where they lacked knowledge and understanding.

The original circuit to the bedroom heater may have been E7, but perhaps the one of the previous owners preferred just to use the convector and chose to switch the circuit from E7 to 24h?