30k out of pocket

ste00

I had a transfer value of just under 30k in one of my tiny pensions , was consolidating all in to one pot and take my 25% tax free , as time went by the company that bought my company went bust so the money went to the PENSION PROTECTION FUND  as soon as it hit the Ppf,s bank my 30k was worth 17k , in my case a levy of £13.000 pounds , I have asked many times for an explanation non given ,are well never mind I suppose it’s better than nothing applied for the 17k in a trivial commutation this is what they use as terminology not a transfer as it’s not a pension anymore it’s compensation But you pay tax on this compensation ,only to be told sorry you have other pensions so all we can do is send you £37.50 a month , no other options , so I have lost my pension rights and my 25% tax free , but get £37.50 a month less tax ,do people think this is a fair way of doing things , the Ppf have 32 billion pounds in assets a lot going in and not much going out , I can only thank the grace of god I got all my other pensions out in case of other company’s folding ,

dunstonh

,do people think this is a fair way of doing things

The PPF was one of the best compensation schemes ever created.    It is very fair on individuals.

the Ppf have 32 billion pounds in assets a lot going in and not much going out

They have plenty going out.

 I can only thank the grace of god I got all my other pensions out in case of other company’s folding ,

Now that would worry me.  Hopefully, they were not defined contribution schemes as they don't require a compensation scheme if a firm goes under.

I had a transfer value of just under 30k in one of my tiny pensions ,

It should be noted that you didn't have £30k in one of your pensions.   You had a 30k CETV.  CETVs have been running much higher than the actual benefits payable for some years now.   The PPF is based on the benefits payable.  Not the CETV.  You get 90% of the benefits that you were going to get.  You were never going to get 25% of £30,000

Thrugelmir

PPF steps in when the pension fund is unable to meet it's liabilities. There never was a pot of £30k. Just an entitlement to future benefits. 

molerat

Look on the bright side and be thankful for the PPF, in the "good old days" your pension would have gone down with the company and been worth £0.

Albermarle

You have to look at it from another angle .
You had a DB scheme that guaranteed to pay you an income when you retired . This is what you signed up for in your contract of employment . The company went bust and the scheme had to go into the PPF , which will have protected 90% of your pension income .
As a secondary issue the DB scheme offered you a CETV to buy you out of the scheme and now the PPF offer is less .
The point is that the ppf is still largely protecting your original entitlement to your pension income.
As Molerat points out , in the past you would have got zilch.

ste00

dunstonh said:

,do people think this is a fair way of doing things

The PPF was one of the best compensation schemes ever created.    It is very fair on individuals.

the Ppf have 32 billion pounds in assets a lot going in and not much going out

They have plenty going out.

 I can only thank the grace of god I got all my other pensions out in case of other company’s folding ,

Now that would worry me.  Hopefully, they were not defined contribution schemes as they don't require a compensation scheme if a firm goes under.

I had a transfer value of just under 30k in one of my tiny pensions ,

It should be noted that you didn't have £30k in one of your pensions.   You had a 30k CETV.  CETVs have been running much higher than the actual benefits payable for some years now.   The PPF is based on the benefits payable.  Not the CETV.  You get 90% of the benefits that you were going to get.  You were never going to get 25% of £30,000

Thrugelmir said:

PPF steps in when the pension fund is unable to meet it's liabilities. There never was a pot of £30k. Just an entitlement to future benefits. 

Thrugelmir said:

PPF steps in when the pension fund is unable to meet it's liabilities. There never was a pot of £30k. Just an entitlement to future benefits. 

Thrugelmir said:

PPF steps in when the pension fund is unable to meet it's liabilities. There never was a pot of £30k. Just an entitlement to future benefits. 

ste00

dunstonh said:

,do people think this is a fair way of doing things

The PPF was one of the best compensation schemes ever created.    It is very fair on individuals.

the Ppf have 32 billion pounds in assets a lot going in and not much going out

They have plenty going out.

 I can only thank the grace of god I got all my other pensions out in case of other company’s folding ,

Now that would worry me.  Hopefully, they were not defined contribution schemes as they don't require a compensation scheme if a firm goes under.

I had a transfer value of just under 30k in one of my tiny pensions ,

It should be noted that you didn't have £30k in one of your pensions.   You had a 30k CETV.  CETVs have been running much higher than the actual benefits payable for some years now.   The PPF is based on the benefits payable.  Not the CETV.  You get 90% of the benefits that you were going to get.  You were never going to get 25% of £30,000

That’s strange as the other small pension £27,995 sent it to my draw down and received 25% tax free from that one , nobody’s has explained how I have a transfer value approx 30k , goes to the Ppf and it’s worth 17k , to be told we will send you £39 a month , no other option , 

shortseller09

They have, read the answers.

dunstonh

That’s strange as the other small pension £27,995 sent it to my draw down and received 25% tax free from that one ,

That is a Defined contribution pension. That was never at risk of failure.   So, it was unnecessary for you to put it into drawdown and draw the tax free cash.  Indeed, doing so, may have hurt your retirement planning.    You took an action that was possibly unsuitable to avoid something that could not happen.

nobody’s has explained how I have a transfer value approx 30k , goes to the Ppf and it’s worth 17k 

It is covered in three posts on this thread.  But here is a 4th time.

You had a defined benefit pension.  Not a defined contribution pension.  DB pensions do not have a fund value. There is no pot of money.   DC pension do have a fund value.  There is a pot of money with them.

 DB pensions pay a range of benefits on retirement.  Those benefits are defined in the pension scheme booklet.   (hence the defined benefit name).   Typically, it is for a percentage of your salary to be paid in retirement based on your years of service.    If you were in an 80ths scheme, you would get 1/80th of your pensionable salary for each year you worked and were a member of the scheme.  So, 10 years of employment with them whilst in the scheme would be 10/80ths of your salary.    

There was never a fund value.   However, it was possible to transfer many of these schemes into another pension.   They gave you a transfer value.   Historically, the transfer value was low and not worth transferring in the vast majority of cases.   However, for the last decade, a range of circumstances occurred that pushed the transfer values higher.      It is that transfer value that you are referring to.     

To transfer it, it would have cost you around £5000 and you couldn't draw it as a lump sum until 2015.      Also, it's possible that the £30k transfer value was hypothetical as if the fund was in default and no employer to make up the shortfall, the administrators may have reduced it.    Maybe this is where you are getting your £17k/13k figures from.    However, once it entered the PPF, it ceased to be a pension and no transfer value existed any more.  It became compensation that pays you 90% of the benefit that the scheme would have paid you had it remained in place.

Your other pension had a fund value.  It was never at risk of default and cannot enter the PPF.  You didn't need to draw it.

ste00

The figure given to me was before the company I never worked for went in to liquidation , the other pensions that I am still transferring , have no payment value to me ,I have worked it out to £20 per week for every 100000 invested , I can do something with 300k what can you do with £60pw , draw the lot out as it  dies with you held in a pension , and after all how long do people really think they are going to live for ,as your your costings I pay less that 1% and they take figures after the 25% deduction , think this pension industry needs a good shake up , company’s making millions , not for me sorry , drawing the lot out slowly ,tax reasons , the one that has been taken to the pension protection fund has gone shame , Just been reading they have been in court a few times , quite a lot of unhappy people , I wish I had never invested my time and money in that pension they have now , I have benefited from it in no way what so ever , it costs me more to park my car In town then they send me , not really found anybody of any help at all on this matter , 

dunstonh

The figure given to me was before the company I never worked for went in to liquidation ,

Which follows what I said was likely.

the other pensions that I am still transferring , have no payment value to me ,I have worked it out to £20 per week for every 100000 invested ,

Then you have worked it out wrong.  Using a sensible drawdown rate, would give you around £67 a week per £100,000.

I can do something with 300k what can you do with £60pw 

£60pw is just under 3.5%. what do you plan to do with it?  One assumes you are not going to draw all of it as you will lose half of it in tax.

 I can do something with 300k what can you do with £60pw , draw the lot out as it  dies with you held in a pension ,

no it does not die with you.  The fund passes onto your beneficiaries.

and after all how long do people really think they are going to live for ,as your your costings I pay less that 1% and they take figures after the 25% deduction , think this pension industry needs a good shake up , company’s making millions , not for me sorry , drawing the lot out slowly ,tax reasons , the one that has been taken to the pension protection fund has gone shame , 

You are making a lot of decisions based on completely duff information and poor understanding.

 I wish I had never invested my time and money in that pension they have now

Many of the old DB schemes were non contributory or had peanuts for contributions.  So, chances are you never "invested" much or anything in it.

not really found anybody of any help at all on this matter , 

You have to want help to appreciate help.    It sounds like you don't really want it.  Even though you will almost certainly benefit from it given your confusion.