POPLA Appeal - ParkingEye PCN 11 minutes "overstay"

Redx

You can appeal on any grounds you like , nothing is excluded , doesn't mean they are winning points but should be made nonetheless. The comments made by coupon mad are extremely valid because the payment is not in dispute , the parking time was paid for , so the contract is about the alleged overstay , clause 13 of the BPA CoP and justifying the extra time !!

So no landowner authority , poor signage and grace periods are the main appeal points , no need to ask if they should be included , only a fool would not do so , naive or inexperienced doesn't matter , those are the 3 main appeal points

Also I did tell you to check if the NTK PCN was POFA compliant ?? If yes the use the first person to appeal to Popla , as a first person witness. No point in being ambiguous if Parking Eye complied with POFA

wiwan31

D_P_Dance said:

I read the thread you suggested, but I'm afraid I don't understand how it relates to my appeal? 

It gives you pointers on how to attack your PPC's signage at appeal/court stage.  When I worked for a certain Government department it was drummed into me that you never ignore any intelligence.  

Ok thank you, I'll review, see what I can use.

wiwan31

Redx said:

So no landowner authority , poor signage and grace periods are the main appeal points , no need to ask if they should be included , only a fool would not do so , naive or inexperienced doesn't matter , those are the 3 main appeal points
Also I did tell you to check if the NTK PCN was POFA compliant ?? If yes the use the first person to appeal to Popla , as a first person witness. No point in being ambiguous if Parking Eye complied with POFA

Great thank you for confirming.

With regards to the PCN being POFA compliant, I believe it is (or at least it claims to be - of course it would!), but I'd value your expert opinion. What do you think?

Redx

It's within the 14 days time window and has the POFA warning , so I believe it's compliant , they usually are if those 2 conditions are met when Parking Eye are involved

If you want 100% confirmation then check POFA yourself

Your Popla appeal should have grace periods as the first item , bearing in mind what coupon mad told you about justification , followed by no landowner authority (putting them to strict proof) and poor signage (bearing in mind you did read and comply at the time , albeit taking your time to pay and to leave in the unpaid minutes)

Do not be sidetracked by the fact you paid , this isn't a dispute about payment , it's a dispute over the unpaid for minutes only

wiwan31

Redx said:

It's within the 14 days time window and has the POFA warning , so I believe it's compliant , they usually are if those 2 conditions are met when Parking Eye are involved
If you want 100% confirmation then check POFA yourself
Your Popla appeal should have grace periods as the first item , bearing in mind what coupon mad told you about justification , followed by no landowner authority (putting them to strict proof) and poor signage (bearing in mind you did read and comply at the time , albeit taking your time to pay and to leave in the unpaid minutes)
Do not be sidetracked by the fact you paid , this isn't a dispute about payment , it's a dispute over the unpaid for minutes only

Ok thank you for the feedback on POFA and for the recommendation on how to build the appeal.

Just a couple more questions if you don't mind:

1. To confirm, for the grace periods, should refer to the BPA CoP clause 13.3 only (covering pre- and post- purchased period)? Or 13.1 for pre-purchased period and 13.3 for post-purchased period?

2. Would you have a good recent example in mind of how to word the poor signage part? I did look at few examples on the forum, but they seemed to refer to earlier version of the BPA CoP.

Umkomaas

You need to read and be aware of this persuasive appeal court case  

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/854.html

Coupon-mad

wiwan31 said:

. Would you have a good recent example in mind of how to word the poor signage part? I did look at few examples on the forum, but they seemed to refer to earlier version of the BPA CoP.

Use and adapt (add photos to) the POPLA template about unclear signs from the NEWBIES thread, and look at the examples to see how people add in their own embedded photos and what a good POPLA appeal should look like.,

You are over-thinking the BPA CoP and you are right about the 'consideration  period' falling away if you stay.  The BPA have been told that is completely disingenuous and I expect they know it, in truth (someone on the BPA board must have talked them into it...dreadful...and utterly against common sense and fair consumer terms).   

Basically, it is a pile of crap - how DARE they try this just before the Government regulates the issue?  Get angry about this and call it out as unworkable in a car park that takes ages to pay; explain why it took ages, go to town on it, and when you've written it, add another sentence and more!  

That clause won't survive the new statutory code of practice.  In fact, why not quote the new PAS232 BSI/Government draft about consideration periods in your POPLA appeal as well as explaining IN DETAIL every step of those 9 minutes:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

Look at the Annexes, find the Consideration Periods one and tell POPLA the BPA version is unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and therefore unlawful.

wiwan31

Thank you both very much for those suggestions, I'll review those resources and redraft accordingly.

zhonguonuren

This is so disgusting it makes me 😡 
I went to the car park for another poster and know exactly what you are saying is true.  I cannot imagine any judge will upheld this scam.  Follow the regulars advice to get this PCN cancelled and then come back and we can talk about a letter before claim for beach of GDPR.

Meanwhile definitely request a copy of the landowner agreement (I doubt you’ll get it but keep asking!).  It is useful to you to see if it is compliant plus I am very interested in this piece of land and how it was transferred.  

Hope it hasn’t put you off visiting Cornwall.  All the best Zhong

Coupon-mad

Do you have Google Location for that day on your phone?  It might surprise you and show you actually arrived minutes later.