Assistance Please. Parking Fine for 7 minutes stay

Pjntjn2

Hi,
 A PCN today was received from ParkingEye along with arrival and departure images for my registered vehicle for a 7 minute stay at a private car park.
After parking and getting to the pay machines it was discovered that both were out of order so  a £1 ticket couldn't be obtained. The image of the vehicle arriving actually locked it in to triggering the fine  as it was unintentionally parking without a ticket.
Could I ask advice on how to proceed with this please and thanks in advance.

Redx

all in the newbies faq sticky thread at the top of the forum , adding a note that the PDT machines were out of order to the blue text template

also read this similar thread, for 6 minutes

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6196283/ticket-for-entering-car-park-and-leaving-6-minutes/p1

and download and read the JAN 2020 edition of the BPA CoP too, clause 13, which is why you received a pcn

did PE comply with POFA ? yes or no ?

KeithP

Your best bet is to send the blue text template appeal easily found in the first post of the NEWBIES thread.

Send it unchanged - no additions or alterations needed.

Send it as the keeper - do not say who was driving.

But before doing anything else, edit your post to remove all clues to the driver's identity.
It was the driver who discovered the machines out of order. It was the driver who unintentionally parked without a ticket. It was the keeper who received the PCN through the post.

Coupon-mad

Same as the other thread today about six minutes.  We've only just replied telling that poster how to argue this at POPLA. 

Go find it, no link, anyone can find a thread from today as quickly as we could, and looking for it is good to get used to searching the forum and reading threads.

PLEASE CHANNEL YOUR ANGER ABOUT THIS PATHETIC CHARGE AND CHANGE THE WAY THE PARKING INDUSTRY WORK:

CALLING ALL NEWBIES!   An urgent task – deadline approaching in about ten days:

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have yet, and time is running out. 

The Government is consulting for just a few more days, about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework intended to rein in the rogue parking firms. 

Does it go far enough?  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation (two separate consultation documents).

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

BSI PAS 232 – COMMENTING ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE AS DRAFTED:

1.    You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.  

 

2.    Register, log into the BSI page, and download & read the cover letter here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

 

3.    Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions... if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list. 

 

4.    Download the PAS itself and start commenting on what you wish to say something about.  Quick links to each section appear on the left of your page. 

 

You don’t have to comment on everything, e.g. you might want to skip the definitions and focus on later sections, and certainly look at the Annex tables at the end that show things like consideration & grace periods and exemptions.

 

5.    Submit comments when you are happy with them. Don’t just ‘SAVE’ and forget!

 

THAT IS HALF THE JOB DONE!

THE MHCLG CONSULTATION IS EASIER AS IT IS JUST A LIST OF QUESTIONS. 

 

6.    You can do it first if preferred or pushed for time:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=EGg0v32c3kOociSi7zmVqAVPfAOtwRxLhHRwQ610oElUMzhQSVo0WUQ4SERVSEZaUU9DTUhFQ1VMUy4u

If your answers exceed 4000 characters (approx. 500 words to a single question or 16000 words (approx. 2500 words) for all the questions below, you can email your answers to parking@communities.gov.uk as long as you state who you are.

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE, FOR RESPONSES TO THE FRAMEWORK:

 

Q1 Do you agree or disagree that members of APAs should be required to use a single appeals service appointed by the Secretary of State?

Strongly agree/Somewhat agree/Neither agree nor disagree/Somewhat disagree/Strongly disagree

 

Q1.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q2 Please provide any other feedback on the determination of appeals, including the funding model and features that an appeal service should offer e.g. telephone or in-person hearings, the ability to submit evidence online

(free text)

 

Q3 Please provide any comments you have on the proposal to enforce the Code by combining the ATA’s existing audit procedures with additional safeguards.

(free text)

 

Q4 Please outline any alternative means by which the Code could be monitored and enforced. You may wish to cite evidence from other regulatory frameworks which are relevant.

(free text)

 

Q5 Please provide any feedback you have on the proposed governance arrangements for monitoring the new Code of Practice

(free text)

 

Q6 Which parking charge system is most appropriate for private parking?

 a) the Three-tiered system

 b) Mirroring the Local Authority system

(free text)

 

 Q6.1 Please explain your answer. You may, for example, wish to make reference to other deterrent frameworks (for example, for railway tickets or traffic violations)

(free text)

 

 

Q7 What level of discount is appropriate:

40% as is currently offered in private parking and suggested in the three-tiered system, or

50% as is offered in Local Authority parking?

a) 40%

b) 50%

 

Q7.1 Please explain your answer, including whether the discount should be set at a different level

(free text)

 

 

 Q8 How should the level of parking charges be set and how should the levels be revised in future?

(free text)

 

 

Q9 Do you agree or disagree in principle with the idea of the Appeals Charter?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q9.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q10 Do you agree or not that the examples given in the Appeals Charter are fair and appropriate? Agree/Disagree

 

Q10.1 Please explain your answer.

You may wish, for example, to suggest additional cases to be covered in an Appeals Charter or query existing examples.

(free text)

 

Q11 Do you agree or disagree that the parking industry should contribute towards the cost of the regulation?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q11.1 Please explain your answer.

(free text)

 

YOU CAN INSTEAD GIVE MORE CONCISE ANSWERS ONLINE, USING THE MHCLG PAGE LINK.

Don’t forget that answering these questions is the easier bit…

Looking at the BSI PAS (the draft code of practice itself) involves logging in and submitting comments again, and again and again and takes more time!

The section about consideration periods THE THING THAT YOU MUST COMMENT ON is in one of the final ANNEXES.

Johnersh

Have you read the newbies thread? I imagine so. I mean, it will be you having to defend this.  You'll therefore know all about parking grace periods. 

And (since it's Parking Eye) I imagine you've read the correspondence you've had and are planning to follow the POPLA appeals process? 

Basically the 7 mins is time from the entry camera to the exit. That is not, on my reckoning a *stay* at all. Don't refer to it as such.

Time taken to negotiate a car park at low speed and park, say 2 mins.

Time taken to stop, read the signs and find inoperable machine, say 3 mins?

Time to exit car park, say 2 mins. 

Voilà 7 mins, of which the car was static for only a short period to review the parking terms.

Well good luck to them if they think that'll fly. 

Pjntjn2

Thanks very much for the replies.
PoFA is mentioned on the back of the letter
This farce will be pursued tomorrow morning along with helping to contribute towards a statutory code of practice.

Coupon-mad

Very good. The MHCLG are listening and are really keen to her from consumers, in your own words.

Umkomaas

This case will give you some further information to digest. 

Time of parking runs only from the point of obtaining the ticket, not on entry to car park!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6004010/ncp-appeal-tax-man-1-ncp-nil

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/854.html

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, sometimes it can lead to cancellation.,

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, and darfts have beenopened for publc consulatation,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, under new legislation but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/

Please also read these and have your say

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

Pjntjn2

Thanks for the links and information.
The help, support and information is first class.
A few images will be obtained for reference if needed.

Half_way

Whos car park was this/where was this?

That information will help us to help you in giving advice on how to proceed with a landowner complaint and how easy a landowner cancellation would be