What to do?? Declaration of Trust, or otherwise.???

Aranyani

Mojisola said:

TopSound said:

I should add for full clarity, I'm the sister, the brother is doing this because in asian culture the guy is considered the "rightful" heir to any estate.
I don't have any issue signing anything over to anyone else I don't particularly want this burden, but I don't want the burden later down the line of picking up the pieces when peoples selfishness (the like of which I've never seen) come through!
Are there any other alternatives here?

As the daughter in an Asian family, just as your brother expects to get all the money, he will expect you to do all the caring.

In my experience daughters in law usually end up doing the lions share of the childcare and parent care when Asian parents live with their beloved sons. 

Aranyani

TopSound said:

Aranyani said:

Its not stupid, its protecting yourself, your own finances and your sanity!

Your mother is not your responsibility, she is an adult, how old is she?

I'm trying to also long term protect myself and my future family from the drama and tension that will unfold should things go wrong. My sanity will be equally as affected at that point too if not moreso if I'm then trying to manage my own family and raise my own kids etc, and whilst she's not my responsibility, I can foresee how this is going to bite everyone in the backside including myself and I'm doing my best to mitigate it.

Remember, you can only control your own actions, so sometimes that means protecting yourself from things you don't have any control over.  In this situation you have no control over your mother's and your brother's attitudes or behaviour, so don't let them be your problem. 

You really really need to find a way to let go of the idea that if your mother's own actions leave her in need later on, you will have to be the one who deals with it.  You don't have to do that.  You can say 'I'm sorry to hear that mum, what are you planning to do about it?' and then go back to your own life. 

Stepping away from the toxic situation might even be the best way to have a cordial and non drama relationship with your family. 

pphillips

If your sibling won't agree to the sale and you don't want to leave your mum to be unprotected, then perhaps there is an option no-one has thought of. You might be able to transfer your legal interest to a trusted third party, such as a solicitor, and a separate transfer of your beneficial interest to your mum using a declaration of trust. The trusted third party will need an indemnity so that they won't become liable for the mortgage in the event of default.

TopSound

Aranyani said:

In my experience daughters in law usually end up doing the lions share of the childcare and parent care when Asian parents live with their beloved sons. 

Agreed, when they are peace loving and not as feisty as the one in question here. This one has already made numerous disgusting comments and is clearly politically and personally motivated. I have no doubts that she will scheme in the background till she has everyone eating out of the palm of her hand, and frankly she has sibling strung by the cahonas. That he's willingly complicit and fully pushing the same agenda is where it gets dangerous as he has power to stamp it out should he wish, but instead he's bought into the same ideology - self interest.

TopSound

Aranyani said:

Remember, you can only control your own actions, so sometimes that means protecting yourself from things you don't have any control over.  In this situation you have no control over your mother's and your brother's attitudes or behaviour, so don't let them be your problem. 

You really really need to find a way to let go of the idea that if your mother's own actions leave her in need later on, you will have to be the one who deals with it.  You don't have to do that.  You can say 'I'm sorry to hear that mum, what are you planning to do about it?' and then go back to your own life. 

Stepping away from the toxic situation might even be the best way to have a cordial and non drama relationship with your family. 

I'd be inclined to agree, the key point here is that I DO have some control over this situation as I own 50% of the property. I have no control over their behaviours nor attitudes; but they shouldn't be expecting me to comply with whatever they want just because they're throwing toys out of the pram...

I know I don't HAVE to pick up pieces when it goes wrong - I'm not suggesting I'm bound to, and if I was colder hearted I could turn to her and suggest she figure something out - however I'm suggesting that I know myself well enough that if and when that eventuality comes to pass, on balance I'm going to feel the need to help, than be able to tell her jog on - as tempting as the latter might be. I'm recognising that as a character trait in me; this is my mother who despite her actions I do love, and I do want to be happy and even if its self inflicted I will want to still do right by her.
What I don't want is her purposefully forcing stupid mistakes now, which I DO have some power over now, but over which I won't have any power the moment I sign it over...

I do highly appreciate your input so thank you.

TopSound

pphillips said:

If your sibling won't agree to the sale and you don't want to leave your mum to be unprotected, then perhaps there is an option no-one has thought of. You might be able to transfer your legal interest to a trusted third party, such as a solicitor, and a separate transfer of your beneficial interest to your mum using a declaration of trust. The trusted third party will need an indemnity so that they won't become liable for the mortgage in the event of default.

Thanks - this is an interesting solution - so the deeds are transferred TO a solicitor? Again with this however it'd need to be watertight, and even then could be contested right? I mean, just because it's watertight doesn't mean they won't try and put me through hell to contest it... Do you have anywhere I might find more information about this route, as I've tried googling but came up empty. Thank you.

pphillips

TopSound said:

pphillips said:

If your sibling won't agree to the sale and you don't want to leave your mum to be unprotected, then perhaps there is an option no-one has thought of. You might be able to transfer your legal interest to a trusted third party, such as a solicitor, and a separate transfer of your beneficial interest to your mum using a declaration of trust. The trusted third party will need an indemnity so that they won't become liable for the mortgage in the event of default.

Thanks - this is an interesting solution - so the deeds are transferred TO a solicitor? Again with this however it'd need to be watertight, and even then could be contested right? I mean, just because it's watertight doesn't mean they won't try and put me through hell to contest it... Do you have anywhere I might find more information about this route, as I've tried googling but came up empty. Thank you.

Traditionally posessing the deeds was the way of holding control, now that control is by holding title or  legal interest - I can't think of a reason why that couldn't be held by a solicitor. It's basically as watertight as you can get. Hope this article is useful: https://www.netlawman.co.uk/ia/legal-beneficial-interest

Aranyani

TopSound said:

Aranyani said:

In my experience daughters in law usually end up doing the lions share of the childcare and parent care when Asian parents live with their beloved sons. 

Agreed, when they are peace loving and not as feisty as the one in question here. This one has already made numerous disgusting comments and is clearly politically and personally motivated. I have no doubts that she will scheme in the background till she has everyone eating out of the palm of her hand, and frankly she has sibling strung by the cahonas. That he's willingly complicit and fully pushing the same agenda is where it gets dangerous as he has power to stamp it out should he wish, but instead he's bought into the same ideology - self interest.

This is sounding more and more like there might be two sides to this story so I think I'll leave it there.

getmore4less

The house is valued in the region of £500 to £550k, with mortgage outstanding of roughly £150k; 

Value was roughly £200k four years ago when divorce happened etc and equity at that point wasn't majorly huge, c. £100k.


£50k added to the mortgage and value more than doubled in 4 years is a lot.

Spendless

So you went  on the mortgage and deeds at the point your parents divorced, whilst not being party to all the legalities and not fully understanding. And now your feel pressurised into giving it up because you fear the repercussions for your Mum if you don't. At the point your parents divorced why didn't your brother take over full ownership if he's considered the rightful heir in your culture. I suspect it's because he wasn't earning enough to get a mortgage at that point and therefore you were needed for your financial 'usefulness' If you gift your share to either your Mum or sibling, wouldn't you also come off the mortgage at that point? Does your brother earn enough to have one in his sole name? What would the situation be re the mortgage if you were to sign over your share? .Sorry if this has already been covered or I've not grasped something.