Totting up 12 points

Car_54

daveyjp said:

If you haven't had any lessons or training since passing your test get signed up now for additional training before you go to Court.  IAM, ROSPA or have some more lessons.

You will then be able to demonstrate to the Magistrates you are addressing your shortcomings.

Possibly. But it isn't either a defence to the charge or an element in any exceptional hardship plea, so it is totally irrelevant.

TooManyPoints

As above, undergoing training (or saying you have or will) will be completely irrelevant to the sentence. Sentencing for speeding is quite prescriptive and rarely does anything the defendant says result in a lesser sentence. 

ToxicWomble

TooManyPoints said:

Perhaps there should be, but I don't believe there is.  There is on pepipoo, though.

On Pepipoo it's a rule. A post like the one above would simply be removed. On here I think it's more of an unwritten convention.

Sometime some home truths need to be said rather than skirted around.
If the OP does end up in court I am pretty sure they will also be judgemental especially when considering any plea or request for “exceptional hardship”
One if the first things they may ask is exactly (or along the lines of) what was posted

Car_54

ToxicWomble said:

TooManyPoints said:

Perhaps there should be, but I don't believe there is.  There is on pepipoo, though.

On Pepipoo it's a rule. A post like the one above would simply be removed. On here I think it's more of an unwritten convention.

Sometime some home truths need to be said rather than skirted around.
If the OP does end up in court I am pretty sure they will also be judgemental especially when considering any plea or request for “exceptional hardship”
One if the first things they may ask is exactly (or along the lines of) what was posted

It's "when", not "if".

TooManyPoints

Sometime some home truths need to be said rather than skirted around.
If the OP does end up in court I am pretty sure they will also be judgemental especially when considering any plea or request for “exceptional hardship”
One if the first things they may ask is exactly (or along the lines of) what was posted

That's all very true. Of course a court will be judgemental - that's what it's there for. However, judgement on a site like this is a different matter. The OP clearly came here for advice on how to deal with the impending proceedings she faces. All the questions in the original post revolve around that. At this stage she doesn't really need to be reminded of the error of her ways; it must be patently obvious by now. The trouble with offering advice or giving judgement on her driving habits is that it tends to descend into a slanging match. If the question had been "how can avoid committing more offences" I would agree. But that wasn't what was asked. There are plenty of places where you can indulge in criticism and judgement. Pepipoo is a serious advice site. It doesn't tolerate judgement or criticism - and it's all the better for it. I'd like to think this isn't one of them when a poster asks for advice on how to deal with a specific problem. This site is not moderated and I have seen the simplest of specific questions quickly degenerate into an appalling row. That's why I think a "gentlemen's (and ladies') agreement" not to go down that road would be far better and help maintain the forum's integrity.

ToxicWomble

I think there’s a middle ground to be had for sure. How that can be moderated - not sure it can be on this site (although the benefits board is very “well behaved”)
Sometimes the judgemental side of a post could prepare the OP for the reality of the situation and allow them to prepare themselves mentally for the challenge ahead

TooManyPoints

I think MSE says moderation cannot be undertaken because of the volume of posts. This board is generally "well behaved" but I have seen it once or twice become a bit unruly. I take your point about preparing miscreants for the rigours that lie ahead, but it's a fine line between that and unasked for criticism and/or judgement! I'd better leave it there as I am doing precisely the thing I'm preaching against!   

Aretnap

Current magistrate's guidelines on exceptional hardship pleas (link):

• It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.
• Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence;
• Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.
• If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.
• Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable;
• Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others. Useful information can be found in the Equal Treatment Bench Book (see in particular Chapter 11);

Note 1: There is nothing to say that exceptional hardship must involve hardship to other people; in fact the guidelines say the opposite ("the offender and/or others"). Obviously hardship to other people will, all else being equal, tend to be more persuasive than hardship to the offender personally; however that's emphatically not the same as saying that only hardship to others can qualify.

Note 2: The guidelines are clear that losing your job is not in and of itself exceptional hardship, but it can be if the effect on you and/or others is unusually severe.

As I've seen a motoring solicitor put it: Having to get up at 6 in the morning in order to take 2 buses and a train to work is inconvenience. Losing your job, having to find another, lower paid job, and cutting back on your lifestyle as a result is hardship. Losing your job when you have no hope of getting another job on anything even close to the same salary, and losing your home as a result *might* be exceptional hardship. It is ultimately for the magistates to decide based on each offenders specific circumstances.

MinuteNoodles

TooManyPoints said:

I think there's a "no judgement" convention on here. There's plenty of places you can voice that sort of opinion. The OP came here for help and advice.

Here's some advice.. try driving with your eyes open and go find a learner driving school and take some lessons, you sorely need them.
I've only ever had 6 points in total in my entire life, two sets of three points 25 years apart and I drive 1500-2000 miles a week. It isn't rocket science, it ain't hard.

NottinghamKnight

I see no problem with judgmental posts so long as they are not abusive or aggressive, there's the opportunity to report posts if they are considered to break the rules with posters being suspended or banned. It's perfectly possible to constructively criticise, unfortunately in this case that all has come a little bit for the OP. There's also the problem that people consider driving a right rather than a privilege, and the number of bans handed out has reduced over the years as driver numbers have increased, suggesting that the overall standard of driving has reduced.