Letter of claim

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, sometimes it can lead to cancellation., i

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, and darfts have beenopened for publc consulatation,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, under new legislation but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/

Please also read these and have your say

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

clairen381

I've recieved my reply form today from dcb legal. I will NOT fill in my income and outgoings because I dispute the debt. I have requested  SAR from the parking company because I don't know what they have on me. Just don't know how to write why I'm disputing the debt apart from they are money grabbing sharks.
Free carpark on a retail park for 2 hours. Overstayed about 22 minutes I think. 
ANPR system.  I used carpark after 6PM it was empty so the businesses would hardly have lost customers by me staying there 22 minutes extra.
There are around 7 units on the retail park. Including curry's. Time spent researching a new product then going over to costa etc it is not unreasonable to think a person would go over the 2 hours. 
Going to try and state the signage wasn't clear also. But as for evidence I do not have as it was 4 years ago.
I will complain to my MP when I have received all the SAR

nosferatu1001

Well you dispute or all the normal reasons
No landowner authorty
Crap signs
etc
Dont reveal the drivers identity unless you have already done so.

Le_Kirk

clairen381 said:

Just don't know how to write why I'm disputing the debt apart from they are money grabbing sharks.

You use pre-action protocol for debt claims 4.2.  Whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice.  That's all you need to say.

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad said:

Yes you do have the mental strength because we will give it to you all the way along!

You are NOT going to pay money to this ex-clamper - read about the criminality:

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/2011/03/31/26000-fine-for-parking-firm/

Time to put the big boy (or girl) pants on and stop asking the CAB.  Read the NEWBIES thread for how to respond at each and every stage and keep replying on this thread when you waver!  We will help you win if a court claim arrives, it's not even scary - most are phone call hearings now.  I take part in them regularly. 

Judges are fair and kind to litigants-in-person, unrepresented people like you, and Judges are not stupid and can see right through a PPC scam.  So can MPs and so is the Government, but you NEED to do this (below) please!!  Don't worry about putting it in the right words, just give your comments to stop this extortion in future!

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have yet, and time is running out.

NB: this will take an hour or more to go through each section, and to do BOTH consultations:

The Government is (this month only) consulting about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework to rein in the rogue parking firms.  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation, and get everyone you know to do the same.

You will need to register to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker, but otherwise it is easy to navigate, and comment upon each section/subsection individually. You can save comments to edit later and or submit comments once you are happy with them.

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

Please complete comment on all sections if you have a view, remembering the vision of the Knight Act is to end extortionate parking charges.  If you agree with us, the added fake 'debt recovery' costs are just double counting the cost of letters and MUST GO, along with the robo-claim legal firms. 

A Speeding fine is £100.  A Local Authority lower rate parking penalty is £50.  Which do you think a private PCN should be like?

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

Responses into the PAS 232 and MHCLG framework documents are not completely straightforward:

On the MHCLG response, you have to answer the questions on a 1-5 scale from strongly agree to strongly disagree, and then put some commentary. No way to upload documents or alternatives.

 On the PAS 232, you have to click on each clause and sub-clause to put your comments, and a suggested rewording of their draft.  You can see comments which other people have written! 

 But, when you click ‘submit’, a message pops up to say your comments have been received, but that only applies to the particular clause you have just addressed.

You have to click ‘submit’ separately for each individual clause response.

Some people will be caught out by this but can revisit it and add further responses up to 12 October.

Have you done this yet? Only a week or so left.  Here is a bit more guidance now some of us have done these 2 consultations:

BSI PAS 232 – COMMENTING ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE AS DRAFTED:

1.    You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.  

2.    Register, log into the BSI page, and download & read the cover letter here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

3.    Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions... if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list. 

 

4.    Download the PAS itself and start commenting on what you wish to say something about.  Quick links to each section appear on the left of your page. 

 

You don’t have to comment on everything, e.g. you might want to skip the definitions and focus on later sections, and certainly look at the Annex tables at the end that show things like consideration & grace periods and exemptions.

 

5.    Submit comments when you are happy with them. Don’t just ‘SAVE’ and forget!

 

THAT IS HALF THE JOB DONE!

THE MHCLG CONSULTATION IS EASIER AS IT IS JUST A LIST OF QUESTIONS. 

 

6.    You can do it first if preferred or pushed for time:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=EGg0v32c3kOociSi7zmVqAVPfAOtwRxLhHRwQ610oElUMzhQSVo0WUQ4SERVSEZaUU9DTUhFQ1VMUy4u

If your answers exceed 4000 characters (approx. 500 words to a single question or 16000 words (approx. 2500 words) for all the questions below, you can email your answers to parking@communities.gov.uk as long as you state who you are.

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE, FOR RESPONSES TO THE FRAMEWORK:

Q1 Do you agree or disagree that members of APAs should be required to use a single appeals service appointed by the Secretary of State?

Strongly agree/Somewhat agree/Neither agree nor disagree/Somewhat disagree/Strongly disagree

 

Q1.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q2 Please provide any other feedback on the determination of appeals, including the funding model and features that an appeal service should offer e.g. telephone or in-person hearings, the ability to submit evidence online

(free text)

 

Q3 Please provide any comments you have on the proposal to enforce the Code by combining the ATA’s existing audit procedures with additional safeguards.

(free text)

 

Q4 Please outline any alternative means by which the Code could be monitored and enforced. You may wish to cite evidence from other regulatory frameworks which are relevant.

(free text)

 

Q5 Please provide any feedback you have on the proposed governance arrangements for monitoring the new Code of Practice

(free text)

 

Q6 Which parking charge system is most appropriate for private parking?

 a) the Three-tiered system

 b) Mirroring the Local Authority system

(free text)

 

 Q6.1 Please explain your answer. You may, for example, wish to make reference to other deterrent frameworks (for example, for railway tickets or traffic violations)

(free text)

 

 

Q7 What level of discount is appropriate:

40% as is currently offered in private parking and suggested in the three-tiered system, or

50% as is offered in Local Authority parking?

a) 40%

b) 50%

 

Q7.1 Please explain your answer, including whether the discount should be set at a different level

(free text)

 

 

 Q8 How should the level of parking charges be set and how should the levels be revised in future?

(free text)

 

 

Q9 Do you agree or disagree in principle with the idea of the Appeals Charter?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q9.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q10 Do you agree or not that the examples given in the Appeals Charter are fair and appropriate? Agree/Disagree

 

Q10.1 Please explain your answer.

You may wish, for example, to suggest additional cases to be covered in an Appeals Charter or query existing examples.

(free text)

 

Q11 Do you agree or disagree that the parking industry should contribute towards the cost of the regulation?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q11.1 Please explain your answer.

(free text)

 

YOU CAN INSTEAD GIVE MORE CONCISE ANSWERS ONLINE, USING THE MHCLG PAGE LINK.

Don’t forget that answering these questions is the easier bit…

Looking at the BSI PAS (the draft code of practice itself) involves logging in and submitting comments again, and again and again and takes more time!

There is a discussion about PAS submissions and what the pages look like, here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6195417/am-i-doing-something-wrong/p1

clairen381

Yes I have

clairen381

I sent this back to my response to the letter of claim. I did copy and paste an example that was on here. I sent it with the reply form and ticked I dispute the debt.
I cannot begin to tell you how bad my mental health is now. I'm suffering terribly with anxiety. I'm literally lying awake all night googling about court. I have complained to my MP and the retailers but the retailers were not at all helpful. I'm still waiting for MP.
Anyway this is my response to dcblegal....

You have sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, fails to provide the photographic evidence which I requested as a subject access request to ****** the contract manager of OBServices parking on the 26th September 2020. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.

This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction. Your client simply cannot not provide the relevant information

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action

2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper

3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012

4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)

5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim

6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver

7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed

8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as January 2017.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

D_P_Dance

I went to Currys recently to buy white goods on a business account.  There was a glitch in their IT system,  they could not find my accont, AND a new employee, I was in that shop alone for over two hours.  There were also a B&Q, clothes and furniture shops,  and a couple of restaurants there.  IMO a two hour li it is an an unfair term in a consumer contract, read this.

https://www.michelmores.com/news-views/news/guide-consumer-rights-act-2015-part-1-unfair-terms#:~:text=The CRA simplifies this and,the detriment of the consumer'.

and complain to your MP.

clairen381

I have complained to my MP. Had an email to say they have recieved it 

Coupon-mad

I cannot begin to tell you how bad my mental health is now. I'm suffering terribly with anxiety. I'm literally lying awake all night googling about court.

I hope you explained this to your MP and in your responses to the BSI Code of Practice, to tell them how horrendous it is for you.
I am glad you are fighting back; it will empower you in the long run.