Boiler issues / Pipework illegal.

pedram

@southcoastrgi - hello, thanks for your thoughts! Yes that sums it up quite nicely and interesting to hear about your views on the boiler make / history - let's see what the companies response is 

Jeepers_Creepers

pedram said:

Hey All,

Here's a new update, I've been calling around other boiler companies and they don't see any issues with coming out and fixing the boiler after seeing the pipework, they have the same assumption - it's only a 6 year old boiler, if they can repair it, it's worth a try and the boiler is probably being condemned because it's a Ravenheat. 

I had an email back from the company here's their response, note the engineer told the Ravenheat owner that it wasn't installed by a Gas Safe Engineer which is totally incorrect!  

''I’m not sure why you think we are wrong? The engineer you have used has carried out an installation in breach of regulations! Below is the owner of Ravenheat and his opinion of the installation after we sent him photos on social media… we assumed it was not fitted by a Gas Safe installer as it is illegal. 

My recommendation to you is that you either a) report this to gas safe immediately, or b) if you still trust him, call the installer and tell him he will need to come back and correct all of the errors on the installation''

I think it's now coming down to a matter of opinion, there are companies out there who are more than happy to work on this boiler and see no issues with the pipework. The company that unfortunately I'm dealing with turned down the job on site, they didn't perform a diagnostic of the boiler which was their main job so in my eyes they shouldn't have asked for the full call out charge. They instead offered to take off the call out fee on a brand new £2.5k boiler, nice 

The fact that they keep stating that the boiler wasn't installed by a Gas Safe engineer as a reason to not do any work, is still beyond me - as I have the certificate to prove it.

At the time I remember telling the engineer that it passed 'Building Regs' but he said that means nothing, as it could have been a brown evolve slipped under the table.  I then questioned him why didn't the British Gas engineer flag your concerns, they answered that the company is so large they make up their own rules.

To be continued...

The 'author's' question was misleading, possibly intentionally so. As you say, he claims it was not fitted by a gas registered installer. He does not know whether that's the case or not, and almost certainly it was the case.

What should this company have done when you called them out? 'Tutted', yes - it is stroppy work. Did it warrant a 'condemnation' notice? Absolutely not - this is not a dangerous boiler due to the use of plastic closer than recommended. As I said before, I'd love to hear of a scenario where it would any difference in any circumstance; if the boiler went up in flames, it would melt the plastic a few minutes sooner than if it were beyond 350mm (or whatever the reg suggests).

If these cowboys were genuinely concerned about the installation, what they should have done is to point out the issue to you and offer to sort it out as an addition to the job - it is 30 minute's work, and £15 in parts.

Is there any way you can also contact the owner of RH and put to him the facts? That would be greeaaat!

pedram

Hi All,

There’s been quite a few backwards and forwards emails between myself and that company, oh what joy it's been going over the same points.  They simply don’t see anything wrong in the way they handle the call out. After politely asking for a refund numerous times and getting ignored – I mentioned that I will express my views on social media, understandably I was really disappointed in the email exchange at this point. It's not about the money anymore, I don't think it's right how they operate, would people take it further or consider it a loss?... I really don't want other people to experience the same issue, so I'll have to leave bad reviews on various websites - regrettably (never had to do that before).

Myself:

I have put all this information up online for a second opinion on moneysavingexpert.com it's the consensus of the group, and phoning other companies that it was very much an abortive visit. I haven't attached any names to my post but if you are not willing to corporate and do the right thing, I will start posting on social media and letting them know my experience of your company.

 

Him:

Threatening to post malicious comments online is blackmail and is would be a case for the ombudsman. 

I cannot stress this enough – we are an extremely high quality and reputable business. We are telling you without doubt that this installation, that we have inspected, is not to regulation. The installer you used has simply broken the rules Pedram, it’s quite simple. 

Just because he is gas safe registered, does not mean he has fitted this correctly. We all make mistakes, and your installer has made several mistakes here which we’ve highlighted for your safety. I have noted your complaint and dealt with it completely professionally. Please speak to your installer.

 

Myself:

You could have easily said, 'you know what, I heard what happened with the call out, we couldn't diagnose the boiler as agreed - my engineers didn't feel it was safe. As they didn't want to touch it, here's £X back and hope you understand, sorry for the inconvenience'. 

Instead you took that money and used it as a shiny 'discount' on a £2.5k install of a new boiler without any cheaper options.

Regardless if this boiler is legal or not (it's your word against many others by the way), if it had problems then offer to fix the issue, this boiler might only need a £180 service / clean - but you don't know, as you haven't even checked the boiler! Why rip it out?

You simply condemned the boiler because it was a Ravenheat, this boiler is only 6 years old - I wanted it fixed not replaced. Then you made assumptions that this boiler wasn't installed by a Gas Safe engineer, to justify the abortive call out - which is incorrect. I told him at the time it passed building regs, a building report and it was last serviced by a British Gas Engineer - again offer to fix the issue, your engineers were only in my flat for 10mins.

How is this behavior professional? You charged for a boiler diagnostic without doing one, then you want to rip out the boiler rather than attempting to see what the issue is and trying to fix it..

It’s very simple - I paid you £110 for a service you didn't do, and I get it, it's more profitable for you to install a new boiler than simply fix an 'old' one - at the expense of the customer.

I gave you numerous chances to rectify the situation but you haven't, the total experience was a farce -  so I am within my right to report this online, nothing malicious just facts.

--

Thanks again for everyone's opinion and help!!

pedram

Hi Everyone,

I am writing a final update to this thread.

I called out another company who were more than happy to work on the boiler.

He was extremely helpful and went beyond the call of duty - especially after hearing the horror story of the previous company. He tried a few things however ended up calling Ravenheat using their free technical support- which honestly was such a great experience. Ravenheat customer service was fantastic!

The engineer, who was actually the company owner came back with the replacement part, which was a £20 flue sensor.

The customer service I experience from the new engineer was night vs day compared to the last one. He also shrugged off the suggestion of the illegal pipework and was very surprised with their excuse.

So a happy ending, a £20 flue sensor vs £2.5k boiler replacement.

It's a real shame that some people are trying to rip people off, although I lost £110 to these a**holes, there are certainly decent companies out there, and with your help on this forum it turned out good in the end - we have heat! 

I just want to say a MASSIVE thank you to everyone who contributed to this tread!! 

Stay safe.

@theoretica

@Homer_home

@nofoollikeold

@Mickey666

@bris

@Jeepers_Creepers

@comeandgo

@lesalanos

@southcoastrgi

Jeepers_Creepers

Woah! You are letting this be?! :-)  It's only just getting tasty :-D

If I may say so, your response to their reply (2 posts up) was, I think, unnecessarily long and detailed, and could have focussed on the main points. 

They said "Him: Threatening to post malicious comments online is blackmail and is would be a case for the ombudsman. 

I cannot stress this enough – we are an extremely high quality and reputable business. We are telling you without doubt that this installation, that we have inspected, is not to regulation. The installer you used has simply broken the rules Pedram, it’s quite simple. 

Just because he is gas safe registered, does not mean he has fitted this correctly. We all make mistakes, and your installer has made several mistakes here which we’ve highlighted for your safety. I have noted your complaint and dealt with it completely professionally. Please speak to your installer."

I would reply something like:

Point 1: This is not - as you well know - a 'threat to post malicious comments', and is not 'blackmail'; with these remarks, you are compounding the falsehoods given in your initial visit. I will provide completely factual reviews in order to protect others - that's what reviews are for. 

Point 2: Which specific 'regs'?! I agree that the installation is not to Ravenheat's recommendations, but you remarked on your initial visit that the installation was 'illegal', which I - and subsequent GasSafes - totally dispute. 

Your initial report was actually; "On arrival found boiler incorrectly fitted with incorrect material, and advised boiler potentially dangerous, and advised not to use Due to manufacture reputation and badly installed will only recommend to change appliance. Gas Warning: At Risk > Pipework issue > pipework in plastic less than 1200mm from appliance."  

If the presence of these plastic pipes and fittings were truly 'potentially dangerous' as you claim, why didn't you offer to replace them - we are, after all, talking around 30 minutes work and about £15 in parts? 

Furthermore, when you contacted Ravenheat's owner by social media to ask "are you happy with the installation of your boiler, baring (sic) in mind it was not fitted by a gas registered installer? to inform them that this boiler was not installed by a Gas Registered installer" you were, again, completely inaccurate since I have the Building Regs Completion Cert which confirm that a Gas Safe installer was used. 

By the way, the boiler has been repaired - with Ravenheat's assistance - by a Gas Safe plumber who considers the existing pipework to be safe, and the part requiring replacement was a £20 gas sensor. 

This will be my final communication to you before I take action to recover the unjustifiable £115 call-out charge from you. You have until Monday 12th Oct 2020 to do respond favourably. If you do not do so, this is what will happen:

1) I will launch a claim using MoneyClaim.org. I am absolutely certain that I will be successful in this.

2) I will contact John Wilson of Ravenheat to inform him of the facts in this situation and correcting the inaccurate social media message you gave him. I will also inform him of the reasons you gave for condemning his boiler and refusing to work on it - 'potentially dangerous' due to plastic pipes and 'manufacturer reputation'. I will add that you referred to the installation as being 'illegal' when it clearly is not.  

2) I will post factual reviews of my experience on Facebook, appropriate forums and review sites where you are listed. 

And, Pedram, please do so. This is an open and shut case. I have zero sympathy for this outfit as they are not 'extremely high quality and reputable' (the modesty!) but arrogant, petulant, whiny, and untruthful. They gave up any claim to consideration when they tried to blind you with BS BS (only the first one is 'British Standards'). They deserve nothing; their chutzpa and hubris requires a darned good kicking.