VCS CCJ successfully set aside Leeds Crown Street

Ferrybird

Good morning all, I hope everyone is doing OK.
I'm just putting the finishing touches to my WS and defence for the set aside hearing and I have a couple of quick questions if someone has time to advise....
1) The Judge at my adjourned set aside hearing asked me to submit a defence to the underlying claim which I have prepared. Assuming that I am granted the set aside would I be bound to rely on the defence I am about to submit if the case goes back to the claim stage? I was wondering if I could add something about requesting the opportunity to submit a further defence if VCS decide to pursue the claim. I suppose if I can't, I believe I could add things in to a supplementary WS. There's a couple of things I haven't addressed in my defence that should VCS continue I'd want to explore further (mainly landowner authority). I've not gone belt and braces (but almost) with this only being a set aside.

2) This question isn't as pressing but more out of curiosity. My hearing that was adjourned was on 18/09. I was aware that the submission date for further documents was 9/10 as the judge said 21 days. However, I did not receive the order from the hearing until yesterday i.e 3 days before I am due to submit. And then I only received it as I called the court pretty cross to say I'd not received the order despite chasing it via phone on 25/09 and with another 3 emails. Surely the court is meant to give people involved more than 3 days notice of what documents they're expected to submit and to whom?! I had a look at CPR to see if there is a time scale / notice period but I didn't see anything obvious. Fortunately I was already mostly prepared but I can imagine that this would disadvantage a lot of people, especially LiP's.

nosferatu1001

This has been going for a reallly long time now - are you still in time?
No, you head it DRAFT DEFENCE, but what would change? 
WHy on earth would you notinclude landowner authority? Thats in every damned defence!

You knew the date. The roder just confirmed it. Work to that deadline. 

Le_Kirk

If you do what @nosferatu1001 suggests, you should be offered the chance to submit an amended defence, that is one based on your draft with additions, modifications and deletions but marked so that the judge and claimant can see the changes.

Ferrybird

@nosferatu1001it has been going on a long time- I had a hearing on 18th but adjourned as VCS claimed not to have received my docs. 
Challenging landowner authority didn't feel straightforward for me, so I need to unpick it further. I have an unredacted contract and it does appear to be with landowner, although via a management agent. However the management agent and landowner share directors. They grant authority to chase people in court. The contract is 13yrs old, but rolling. Does reference illegal practices like clamping. I can challenge it but will take time I haven't had, so I've focussed on my strongest defence which is POFA as I wasn't driving and proof that the driver did actually pay.
Thanks @nosferatu1001& @Le_Kirk I'll mark it draft

nosferatu1001

You dont need much in a defence, as it is merely an argument
You argue they have insufficient authority to offer parking charges Basically done. 
Youre getting hung up on a deeper analysis of the actual contract, which can be done at a later time. 
If you dont raise it in your defence now, you're gambling that you wil be permitted to amend any defence. That relies on the court accepting the defence now is a draft. 

Ferrybird

@nosferatu1001 you're right about getting hung up on the analysis. It's because I know my strength is in written argument, not oral. It's something I've never been good at and I went blank during the last hearing. I think it's just making me worry about including as much as I can. I've also been sent a new hearing date for November and it's in front of the same Judge (he said it was unlikely to be him again) who was not the friendly understanding Judge I had read about in other threads.

henrik777

Ferrybird said:

Good morning all, I hope everyone is doing OK.
I'm just putting the finishing touches to my WS and defence for the set aside hearing and I have a couple of quick questions if someone has time to advise....
1) The Judge at my adjourned set aside hearing asked me to submit a defence to the underlying claim which I have prepared. Assuming that I am granted the set aside would I be bound to rely on the defence I am about to submit if the case goes back to the claim stage? I was wondering if I could add something about requesting the opportunity to submit a further defence if VCS decide to pursue the claim. I suppose if I can't, I believe I could add things in to a supplementary WS. There's a couple of things I haven't addressed in my defence that should VCS continue I'd want to explore further (mainly landowner authority). I've not gone belt and braces (but almost) with this only being a set aside.

2) This question isn't as pressing but more out of curiosity. My hearing that was adjourned was on 18/09. I was aware that the submission date for further documents was 9/10 as the judge said 21 days. However, I did not receive the order from the hearing until yesterday i.e 3 days before I am due to submit. And then I only received it as I called the court pretty cross to say I'd not received the order despite chasing it via phone on 25/09 and with another 3 emails. Surely the court is meant to give people involved more than 3 days notice of what documents they're expected to submit and to whom?! I had a look at CPR to see if there is a time scale / notice period but I didn't see anything obvious. Fortunately I was already mostly prepared but I can imagine that this would disadvantage a lot of people, especially LiP's.

Is it 21 days from service or 21 days from the date of the order ?

I've seen examples of people who get orders where the deadline has expired before it arrived due to court inefficiency rather than post issues.

Ferrybird

@henrik777
21 days from date of the order.
Definitely an inefficiency issue rather than post. They hadn't posted it when I called yesterday, it then arrived this morning prompted by my call. 
The further on I get with this, the more Kafka's 'The Trial' comes to mind......
"Josef is ordered to appear at the court's address the coming Sunday, without being told the exact time or room Josef....arouses the assembly's hostility after a passionate plea about the absurdity of the trial and the emptiness of the accusation"

Ferrybird

Hi All,

Quick background to save people having to scroll back:
- Discovered a CCJ on my credit file in July due to a VCS PCN which I had no idea about
- Submitted a N244 before finding this site but managed to fill it in sufficiently to be granted a hearing 
- Realised I had not updated V5C
- Discovered the PCN is for a car park in Leeds. I am the keeper but not the driver and have good evidence of that. PCN is not POFA compliant due to wording and keeper data was applied for within days of the parking event.
- First set aside hearing in Sept adjourned as claimants rep claimed that they had no received my documents
- This gave me an opportunity to submit a draft defence as I had not done this originally and to do lots (lots!) of reading, following threads and tentatively commenting on other similar threads which helped hugely with my understanding and confidence for the next time around.....

Update:
Second hearing was last week before DDJ Healey at Leeds. He was less stern than the Judge at my original hearing which put me at ease. The rep for VCS argued that they had taken reasonable steps to find me by contacting the DVLA and felt that was sufficient. The Judge agreed with them on that point. I argued that other steps could have been taken and relying on once source of information is not adequate.

VCS rep went on to say that I had referred to the Southampton case and I had misrepresented that as there was a subsequent appeal that overturned this judgment (I kept quiet and smiled to myself....). He also said that although I have provided evidence that a ticket was paid for an incorrect reg was entered therefore the driver was in breach of T&Cs.

The Judge got the rep to agree my application was prompt. He then asked me about the ticket. I pointed out that it does not say anything on the VCS signs about entering the correct VRN, nor does it say anything in the contract they supplied about how incorrect VRNs should be dealt with (I discovered last night that the contract is the same one as @LordHorrendous so I suspect we were at the same car park). The term breached was not displaying a ticket, but that is not possible as no ticket is produced, and no alternative T&Cs about payment apps or payment via the web. I didn't even get to address the Southampton case as the Judge said he was ready to give his verdict.

I was not entitled to a mandatory set aside as he felt that the service of the claim form was correct and therefore the default judgment was regular. However he was satisfied that my application was prompt and I have a real prospect of successfully defending the claim. He outlined that the ticket being paid for is my strongest argument, there is some merit in my argument about the signs and some merit in my abuse of process argument regarding the £60 added - as I did not pick this up with him it seems he is familiar with this scam. I was therefore awarded a discretionary set aside. We discussed costs and I was not awarded any. He explained that as he had ruled that the default judgment and service of the claim form was regular then he could not award my £255 set aside fee. He also said I couldn't claim fixed witness fess for this hearing.

I'm really happy to have had the judgment set aside!

I'm now at a bit of a crossroads. Part of me would like to see this through to the end and also have an opportunity to try and claim back the leave and hours of reading, document prep, printing, research etc. However, I think it is sensible to suggest a 'drop hands' offer. 

I have attached my skeleton arguments in case anyone with a similar case finds it useful for their hearing.

Thank you so much to everyone who helped me to get this far. I'm very grateful for the time and knowledge you give freely to help others who come here anxious and scared, and from which I have benefitted enormously. 

Le_Kirk

Did the judge not mention the fact that you must now go on to defend the original claim?