VCS CCJ successfully set aside Leeds Crown Street

KeithP

But issue date is not the same as date given.

Given is effectively defined in POFA para 9(6).

Ferrybird

@henrik777
That was the bit I kept re-reading as I felt like the clue was there but I was missing it. Thank you for your patience with me on this. 

Ferrybird

Thank you @KeithP
Thanks everyone for the advice today, even though I'm getting a bit ahead of myself as I dont even have the set aside yet. It's nice to feel supported and no so alone with this, eases the pressure. 

Coupon-mad

The problem with accessing the DVLA again is that people who don't keep their V5 up to date mainly do so in ignorance and many believe the driving licence does the same job therefore many times the problem would remain.

No, that's the very point I am making. The driving licence should do that job, in future.

I am saying the DVLA MUST update all addresses for the data subject, if they know from the driving licence being returned, that he or she has moved.  I am saying they are breaching the DPA by not changing the address across the board.   I am seeking within the Wider Framework, a change in how the DVLA deal with address data because they are breaching the DPA Principles.

For example, if you told your Bank you'd moved and headed up the email or letter with your current account number, they would have to also change your savings account and your mortgage, if both were in your sole name.  The same applies to a DVLA data subject who is known to have x driving licence and y car, under their name.  The DVLA must start complying with the law and update y car as well as x driving licence, in future, and I am saying that in my submissions.

So, my suggestion is that PPCs will have to ask the DVLA at LBC stage ''has this data subject - whose name was given to use via the KADOE - moved and do you have alternative addresses for this person?''  And the DVLA would have to provide that info, at a small cost charged to the PPC (quite right). 

The DVLA can't be heard to say the data subject might be a different John Smith, because they KNOW it's not because the addresses match as well.  They could always build in a safeguard that asks the keeper whether they have any cars that also need to the address updating, as part of the acknowledgement process when the driving licence arrives.  At the moment they do NOTHING except for some small print on the letter that returns your driving licence to you. Not good enough, DVLA.

The DVLA are at fault here and are an indirect cause of default CCJs galore, plus people must also be missing hearing about TFL postal PCNs, Police NIPs, the lot. 

I know the MHCLG are concerned about default CCJs because I've asked them myself, so I know they are listening to suggestions about change - even quite random changes.

Ferrybird

Hi all,
I just wanted to post an update.
I just had my set aside hearing. It was very difficult and I did not get the outcome I had hoped for.

The solicitor representing VCS claimed that they had not received my written submissions despite me having emailed them on 8/9/20 to their litigation department. From the off the judge suggested an adjournment (ultimately this was the outcome).
The Judge was not at all sympathetic to me at all for not updating my V5C and would not grant a mandatory set aside. He used "your fault" several times and was very stern in tone. I tried to argue the point about the DVLA having other addresses for me as @Coupon-mad had suggested, and that I was there to be traced. The claimants solicitor said they don't use traces as "its not cost effective". In my head I was thinking about the cost impact on me having a CCJ and how this didn't seem very fair, but couldn't quite articulate this so stayed quiet.

The issue then fell to discretionary. Thank you so much @henrik777 for so clearly explaining the discrepancy between the VCS NTK and POFA wording as when I raised this point the judge said it was a "unique" point that he has not had a defendant raise before and agreed with me that I was right. However he felt it was unfair that VCS did not have a chance to respond to this so has adjourned

He asked me if I would be willing to name the driver. I said that at present I did not feel comfortable doing that but mentioned that the driver had proof of payment. However the case got more confusing then as the Judge and VCS said the issue was that the driver had not displayed a permit in the car park. It is a mixed use car park and I pointed out that there were no marking in their own phots showing it is permit only and in fact directly behind my car in the photo there is a sign for the remote payment app (which the driver used, albeit with the wrong registration).

I asked for 21 days to submit my defence as work is so full on at the moment I would struggle in 14 days as I'm back on nights the week after next.
It was so stressful, I burst in to tears straight after. I was so anxious throughout the hearing I was shaking and struggled to focus. I do have anxiety that is fairly well controlled (had for many years and received treatment)  but I think I underestimated how much of a challenge it would be. I'm not looking forward to the next hearing and having to do this again, but needs must.

I may ask for feedback once I've drafted my defence. I express myself better in writing so I would like this to be as cast iron as possible in case my nerves get the better of me again.

Thanks for your help so far. I've found the forum a great source of support and information. The judge did ask me whether anyone had helped me to draft my submission and what my profession was as he was impressed with the quality - but then chastised me for not submitting a separate defence and witness statement (the letter sent to me by court wasn't clear on this) - give with one hand, take with the other!

nosferatu1001

An adjournment was a stupid idea by the judge. Did you show them proof you had served yoru docs on them? If so then its their own fault. 
But whats done is done

Are you sure this is an adjournment? Did you file a draft defence at all? 
The draft defence is basically written for you anyway...  newbies thread. 

Coupon-mad

Well done - although it's adjourned, you covered a lot of ground you can now build on.

It's not your fault for not changing your V5C, arguably it's the DVLA's, if you told them you'd moved, because you are a single 'data subject'.  Also, VCS can't ask the DVLA again for updated addresses, so even if someone changes their V5C, VCS have to use Trace instead. 

They MUST take sufficient steps to ascertain the current address and not rely on an old one from the DVLA.  Somewhere, I recall seeing the DVLA stating to PPCs that they should use tracing services.

Do you know what, I am FED UP with VCS' trick of getting their reps to say they haven't received the submissions emails to them, when they have - it is atrocious and a pattern we've seen this Summer. We need to warn all newbies and make sure people include in their bundle, proof of posting/emailing to VCS.

So, hang on, the Judge wants your defence (as keeper not driver) within 21 days?  OK, we can help with that.  Start with the template defence (see top thread of that name) and adapt it to suit, then go find the WITNESS STATEMENT that I wrote for @blancswann which is a case where the D wasn't the driver and I think it was Excel or VCS, so very apt. 

You need a WS and evidence to be submitted in support of your defence, even though these CCJ judges only ask for a defence.  It's not good enough that the Judges usually give the Defendant no scope to put in any WS or evidence about the actual defence to the PCN, and just fast forward past that stage.  So submit ALL in time.

Ferrybird

@nosferatu1001 The hearing was via BT meet so I was not able to 'show' but had it gone to court I would have taken it. With hindsight I wish I had sent it to the court supplementary to the documents I submitted. To be honest from the way the Judge was with me I think he still would have adjourned as he felt it was important the solicitor had seen my documents. I do feel that I am being disadvantaged by VCS's disorganization (at best if I assume they received it and didn't pass it on) or lies (at worst).

@Coupon-mad I will definitely look at that (in fact I think I saved a copy already as I was anticipating a set aside and then having to submit my WS / defence as keeper!), thank you. Yes, he would like my defence as driver. I still struggle a bit with the difference between a WS and defence. My understanding is the WS is in the first person and the subjective facts. The defence is legal arguments, case law etc? I know the answer is on the forum, I will track back and find this.

I am going to complain to DVLA too about the possible breach of GDPR.
I've written to my MP and Minister for HCLG. Will be commenting on the parking consultation too - this has been a real eye opener. I'm glad I can warn friends and family about this scam.

I definitely plan to requests costs for unreasonable behaviour and will be researching this and cost orders in the next couple of weeks due to VCS making me attend another hearing by claiming not to have had documents, all the time I have spend reading and researching (which was made easier by all the work everyone here has put in before me thankfully), pursuing it even though I explained that they do not have a realistic prospect of success against either me or the driver etc. I work in A&E and across hospital wards, I'm pretty busy with other things at the moment and this is not what I (or anyone whatever profession or circumstances they're in) wants to be doing with their free time. 

Redx

you are correct in that important difference between defence and WS, although the WS also adds in exhibits (evidence) about the case , like transcripts and photos etc and anything found out since etc, plus a summary costs schedule, known as a bundle because its not just the WS

Ferrybird

Thank you @Redx, glad I'm on the right track with that.