Gatherings at funerals from Mon 14th September

Spendless

Savvy_Sue said:

Spendless said:

Ok, another query. Relative is still with us but not for much longer. My son has returned to his Uni town and accommodation. Whilst he's not one of those locked up, he's about to come under different rules, one of them is 'avoid all but essential travel out of area' Does attending a funeral come under 'essential travel'? 

I believe it was allowed under the initial lockdown, so I'd say it was. How will he be travelling, and how far? (I believe in early lockdown there were people at train stations etc asking "is your journey really necessary?" and sending people home if it was frivolous. I didn't hear of any roadblocks ... but that doesn't mean there weren't any.)

I don't know who you could ask about this, clearly the PM and cabinet have no clue, however it's possible that his local authority website will have more information. 

He's 100 miles away. There's no direct train so he would need to catch 2 (takes an hour and a half roughly) or we would need to collect him by car (also 1.5 hr journey) assumming this was possible.

sheramber

In all the lockdown reporting "essential travel"  is  variously described  as school or work, to get medical supplies   or food, to support a vulnerable person.
You  should not  share a car with someone you do not live with.

There is always the chance he could take the virus  back to his flat mates.

Spendless

He lives with us during holidays and his house mates during term time, so I've no idea what car sharing would come under.  

maman

I'd say he is allowed to travel. I think it would be both for support for yourselves and his own MH. Public transport is allowed wearing a mask as is sharing a car with masks, looking forward and good ventilation and hygiene. 

It's not easy. I attended a family funeral last week. It was a 400 mile round trip. 30 socially distanced in the crematorium and no gathering afterwards. Fortunately it was on the last hot, sunny day so we were able to chat outside. I'm glad I went. I'm sure your son will be too. 

BooJewels

I'm going to add a little spanner in the works, as I think I perhaps think differently from other people in this regard.

My father passed at the height of lockdown and the crem his funeral was at was restricted to 6 people at the time.  I didn't attend and nor did my adult son who doesn't live with us.  Because at the time, the threat of the virus was a greater concern than attending a short service some distance away from home.  To avoid the difficulties of people wanting to attend, we simply told everyone that there was no funeral and my sister and his elderly sister isolated for 2 weeks before and then went together, just so that he had company as he went on his way.  I wrote a much more personal eulogy than you perhaps would for a more public service and we played his favourite 2 songs.  I went through the same order of service and listened to the music etc. sat in the garden with noise cancelling headphones and a large G&T.  

But my dominating concern about the arrangements was in not actually spreading the virus.  As my father was elderly, so were all his friends - there is no way on earth I was going to put any of them at risk by suggesting they gather anywhere or get on buses etc. (at my mother's funeral a year before my son had hired a car and ferried people about).  Likewise, my husband is very poorly and at great risk, so I wasn't going to risk potentially going on public transport myself to attend and bringing it home.

I would respectfully suggest that you consider why the restrictions are in place before trying to find ways to work around them.  We're going to have a social gathering with food etc. to pay our respects, that anyone can come to, as and when it's safe to do so.  It perhaps won't be the same (and may never even happen at this rate), but I need to sleep at night knowing that I didn't put anyone at risk by doing it sooner.  Keeping the people still alive safe, at the time, was simply more important to all of us and a decision we took jointly, quickly and uncontested.  Not ideal, but then the world is on it's head at the moment and if we each take responsibility for how we conduct ourselves, means we all have to make sacrifices for the good of others - not just those we care about, but the wider communities they work and live in.

Spendless

Look it's not my decision to make. As I've already pointed out I am the in-law in all this. My query was because I see the words 'upto 30 allowed at funerals'. I queried exactly what this meant when the 'rule of six' came in because I'd never seen any clarification anywhere. This was so I could tell the relatives who are drectly involved and will be in the funeral arrangements. Yes I did want to know how where my son lives at Uni will be affected, again that is a very recent change.  The poster above who mentioned mental health issues had a  point I'd not considered. We all have our personal view on whether the chances of catching and dying of the virus outweigh any other medical  issues and I'm not prepared to get involved in that on here. 

Malthusian

Lockdown has risks as well, which is why lockdown will kill an estimated 200,000 people, according to the Government's own figures (almost certainly an underestimate).

Social gatherings are essential to mental health, and this includes gathering to pay respect to the dead.

If it is legal and practical for the son to attend and he wants to do so, he should attend.

If he keeps his distance and wears a mask there is no measurable risk of him passing on the virus to a vulnerable person.

Savvy_Sue

Spendless said:

My query was because I see the words 'upto 30 allowed at funerals'. I queried exactly what this meant when the 'rule of six' came in because I'd never seen any clarification anywhere. This was so I could tell the relatives who are drectly involved and will be in the funeral arrangements. 

Let's just say "it's complicated'. 

My local church has (along with many many others) been streaming mostly pre-recorded services since March. We can now have up to 30 people in the church, wearing face masks, sitting in family groups, not singing, and not 'mingling' before or after. So that is what is happening, and we are live-streaming that service (technology permitting ...) Whoever is 'leading' that part of the service may remove their mask: everyone else keeps quiet - so only one person can sing at a time, for example (which just feels really weird ...)

Our small groups can also meet in the church building, and I think that the limit on each group is less than 30 but can be more than 6. However, if there are MORE than 6 present, then only one person can speak at a time. If we get a real ding-dong discussion going, we have to split into two smaller groups ... 

It is difficult to know what to do, and I can fully sympathise with what BooJewels has said. 

Spendless

My relative sadly died recently. Her adult children went to make the funeral arrangements and asked about wakes. The funeral director confirmed that they could go ahead, in a premises (eg pub/restaurant)  so long as the current covid rules were adhered to, so  no more than 6 at a table, remain seated etc. FD said they were aware of some places that had accepted bookings and believed one of them was somewhere that had been considered by the family. A wake at home however , either inside or outside would come into rule of 6. Widowed spouse has booked a premises for after the funeral service and . No 'getting round the rules' has been applied.  

Savvy_Sue

Spendless said:

My relative sadly died recently. Her adult children went to make the funeral arrangements and asked about wakes. The funeral director confirmed that they could go ahead, in a premises (eg pub/restaurant)  so long as the current covid rules were adhered to, so  no more than 6 at a table, remain seated etc. FD said they were aware of some places that had accepted bookings and believed one of them was somewhere that had been considered by the family. A wake at home however , either inside or outside would come into rule of 6. Widowed spouse has booked a premises for after the funeral service and . No 'getting round the rules' has been applied.  

I hope all goes well. I understand that interaction between different tables is also 'banned' - calling across from one to another, swapping seats etc. It's so hard.