Investing in Whisky

bradders1983

Quite clearly means the year 2000

Barny1979

barnstar2077 said:

kipsterno1 said:

One point that many people don't consider is have you got suitable space to store it all? 
I have over the years purchased several bottles that have seen a rise in value but I have only ever bought stuff I would enjoy if they were to be opened.
To give you a rough idea I have just looked on Whisky Exchange and they give the following (retail) prices on three of my bottles,
Bought 2000 for £60 now £400
Bought 2000 for £12 now £250
Bought 2004 for £250 now £2000

I'm sorry, do you mean you bought a bottle in 2000, or you bought 2000 bottles?!  

It's blatantly the year of purchase

kipsterno1

I'm sorry, do you mean you bought a bottle in 2000, or you bought 2000 bottles?!  

I wish 😁. I do regret not buying more of the £12 bottle. It was a millennium release of a standard 12yo Glenmorangie that must have been lost in the stock room. They were selling it cheaper than normal bottling in the summer. 

I did however buy a 250l cask in 2005. I need to get that regauged and bottled or look to selling it. I paid £1000 for that and saw one go at auction last year for £4000.

Apodemus

Barny1979 said:

Yeah, as said the father got lucky that the brand became trendy and there is a large market for Whisky in Asia, which has pushed prices up.

I'm not sure it was just the brand - there are a number of brands that would probably have achieved a similar increase and would have been part of any rational "stock-selection" in 1992 - but rather that the lot that is being auctioned is a complete run of 28 years of date-labelled product.

Barny1979

Apodemus said:

Barny1979 said:

Yeah, as said the father got lucky that the brand became trendy and there is a large market for Whisky in Asia, which has pushed prices up.

I'm not sure it was just the brand - there are a number of brands that would probably have achieved a similar increase and would have been part of any rational "stock-selection" in 1992 - but rather that the lot that is being auctioned is a complete run of 28 years of date-labelled product.

"The value of Macallan has risen massively over the last five to 10 years,"

scottiescott

veryintrigued said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-54040307

If the guy thinks he's going to get 40k for 28 bottles of 18yo Macallan he has either been badly advised by the auction house or is seriously deluded. A quick "back of the fag packet" calculation means thats an average of £1400 per bottle. The first, oldest bottle from 1992 wont even make £1400 and they get progressively cheaper as you go through the years up until the 2019  bottle which makes about £250 at auction. Having 28 consecutive years may add value but it is not a complete set. Macallan were releasing 18yo's back in the early 60's. My mate has a set and reckons they're worth about 70k.
For me its just a good story for the press. They even show pictures alongside the article of earier expressions of 18yo Macallans which are more desirable and costly, and not the actual bottles up for auction.
There is money to be made by buying the "right" bottles but because so many people are doing it, its becoming harder and harder to acquire collectible bottles. Many are now only released by the distillers through a ballot.
I've been doing it for nearly 30 years and have been lucky enough to acquire bottles (initially) fairly easily.
Good luck to anyone starting off now, they'll need it.

scottiescott

kipsterno1 said:

One point that many people don't consider is have you got suitable space to store it all? 
I have over the years purchased several bottles that have seen a rise in value but I have only ever bought stuff I would enjoy if they were to be opened.
To give you a rough idea I have just looked on Whisky Exchange and they give the following (retail) prices on three of my bottles,
Bought 2000 for £60 now £400
Bought 2000 for £12 now £250
Bought 2004 for £250 now £2000

But of course you won't get those prices at auction. More like half retail price at auction.

kipsterno1

scottiescott said:

kipsterno1 said:

One point that many people don't consider is have you got suitable space to store it all? 
I have over the years purchased several bottles that have seen a rise in value but I have only ever bought stuff I would enjoy if they were to be opened.
To give you a rough idea I have just looked on Whisky Exchange and they give the following (retail) prices on three of my bottles,
Bought 2000 for £60 now £400
Bought 2000 for £12 now £250
Bought 2004 for £250 now £2000

But of course you won't get those prices at auction. More like half retail price at auction.

Which is why I made it clear that these are the current retail prices. Anyone wanting to get an idea of the markup look up the cost of a bottling on any of the popular online retail sites then find the same bottle on a whisky auction site. 
Your previous post is spot on.

EdGasketTheSecond

Who are you going to sell to? You won't get anything like the price you paid as the buy-sell spread must be huge. If you want a hard physical asset buy gold or silver instead.

If you particularly want to invest in Whisky then BullionVault do a sideline in Whisky investment; much easier to buy and sell through them than doing it on your own.

Lammasu

The downside of investing in Whisky (bottles) is definitely space compared to other physical assets but if you enjoy it why not? There are plenty of auction sites to sell on and worst case you have lots of good quality whisky to drink ! 
I value my whisky taking the mean average of last 3 auction prices on SWA. 
 If you want to take a small rik buying from new  / reopened distillery can be profitable in terms of potential return if they become popular. In terms of speed and % return my most profitable was an Arran Icon's 'The  Peacock' which was part of a  limited edition release in 2009  (the others were Westie, Eagle and something else). I got it then for £38 and it was worth  about 4 times that two years later and the last couple of years its been going at auction around £230-300 on SWA for a bottle in good condition (peak I've seen is £360 back in 2014).  

For the big brands there are the limited editions which might earn you more in a shorter period as you can flip them if that's your thing but I've been put off as the distilleries have adopted quite aggressive pricing strategies which I think have outstripped the value of the whisky itself (based on my own subjective opinion).  I am a member of the  Ardbeg committee for example and you used to get really interesting  annual expressions for about £70-90 a few years ago. The 2020 edition (Traigh Bhan) is £198 and I just don't think the product is worth that!  

The other option which is also a bit niche is looking at  reputable independent bottlings  (SMWS, Signatory, G&M etc), as they can have  quite a different flavour profile from the Distillery 'brand'  which can appeal  to collectors especially from bigger names or 'silent' distilleries, yet will only have a small number of bottles from each expression.