Cameras with viewfinders

Farway

twopenny said:

I'm taking all the ideas in, it's appreciated. You never know what comment might create the trigger like remembering light meters and hair lines.

Farway, I had one of the early Cannons with viewfinder that took wonderful shots. Automatic or manual, speed setting. Although it only had 6x zoom it seemed to do as well as the new 'emergency' pocket one I bought with double that. If I could have fixed it's bit that had gone wrong I would have. Find a good one, stick with it. Remember Cybershot, was the most wanted at the time. Great little camera.

Have you tried searching for a used one?

Never know your luck, especially with so many people wanting the latest shiny one

There's an app that tracks Amazon prices which may help.

Not used it myself but could help.

Amazon do sell used from sellers, worth a look?

Johnmcl7

Farway said:

I've recently started using a Lumix GX85. Which is Micro 4/3 system

The viewfinder like many these days is electronic, you are not looking through the lens but seeing what the sensor "sees"

One advantage of MFT is lens interchangeability with other brands, in this case Sony

I'm possibly misunderstanding your comment here but M4/3 and Sony are definitely not interchangeable, Sony use their own e-mount which is not compatible with micro 4/3.  Panasonic and Olympus are the two main companies support m4/3 and lenses from either company can be used on m4/3 bodies.

Johnmcl7

I've read through the thread a couple of times but still not very clear on what sort of camera you're looking for so I'll make some general recommendations for compact cameras with good image quality and a viewfinder.  For your budget these should be affordable although you'd likely have to go second hand.  

Sony RX100 mk3 - The RX100 series are a compact range which offer a large 1in sensor, this is smaller than a micro 4/3 or APS-C sensor (of the large sensor sizes it's 1in -> micro 4/3 -> APS-C -> full frame/same as standard film with about one stop difference between each) but still far larger than the 1/2.3in sensors used in mobile phones and the cheaper compacts and superzooms.  It offers a good balance between image quality and size making for a very small body with a fast lens, the mk3 is the first in the series to offer a builtin viewfinder.  While the lens is fast wide open the 24-70mm lens range is quite short taking it from wide angle up to around a portrait range, the handling of the small body is not great and I find the pop up system for the EVF a bit fiddly:
https://www.cameralabs.com/sony_cyber-shot_rx100_iii/

Panasonic TZ100 - Unlike most of the TZ cameras, the TZ100 (and its more expensive sibling the TZ200) use a much larger 1in sensor the same as the RX100 series.  The EVF is fixed in place making it easier to use and it has a longer 10x zoom than the Sony RX100mk3 but the body is larger and the lens isn't as bright:
https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic-lumix-tz100-zs100-review/

Panasonic FZ1000 - One of the few proper bridge cameras (most superzooms use tiny sensors these days), this camera offers the same large 1in sensor as the compacts above but a much wider zoom range.  In turn the body is far less compact though:
https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic_lumix_fz1000/

Panasonic GX80 - This is a micro 4/3 camera which means it has an interchangeable lens, that means it's compatible with micro 4/3 lenses manufactured by Panasonic and Olympus and it has a micro 4/3 sized sensor which is a bit bigger than the 1in sensors in the cameras above and a bit smaller than the APS-C sensors.  The GX80 has a compact body with a builtin viewfinder although the small kit kit lens doesn't offer much range and is comparatively slow, if you want to add more range then the camera is going to be much less compact:
https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic-lumix-gx80-gx85-review/

Sony A6000 - This is another interchangeable lens camera which uses Sony's E-mount (no other vendors produce cameras using this system but there are third party lenses) which has a larger APS-C sensor.  It's quite an old camera now but it has a solid feature set and the 16-50mm lens is very compact although again if you want more range it's going to get a lot bulkier:

https://www.cameralabs.com/sony_alpha_a6000/

In terms of how modern electronic viewfinders (EVF) compare to optical viewfinders (OVF) I find EVF's good these days.  Around the early to mid 2000's I found the EVF's in bridge cameras a poor substitute for the OVF's DSLR's offered since the resolution was low, they lagged and they became unusable in low light.  Improvements in technology have significantly improved them though and I find them entirely usable, OVF's were often compromised by the size of the camera so rarely offered full frame coverage which EVF's can easily do and EVF's also have the advantage of being able to show much more data on screen meaning you don't have to take the camera down from your eye and will show the scene as the camera sees it so if I've previously changed the settings for a super low exposure or similar the EVF will show my settings are wrong for the current scene.

Personally I don't find the EVF's useful on compact cameras due to their slightly awkward handling although I know plenty who still value them for that, with bigger cameras when I have one hand on the lens I find them essential though.

Farway

Johnmcl7 said:

Farway said:

I've recently started using a Lumix GX85. Which is Micro 4/3 system

The viewfinder like many these days is electronic, you are not looking through the lens but seeing what the sensor "sees"

One advantage of MFT is lens interchangeability with other brands, in this case Sony

I'm possibly misunderstanding your comment here but M4/3 and Sony are definitely not interchangeable, Sony use their own e-mount which is not compatible with micro 4/3.  Panasonic and Olympus are the two main companies support m4/3 and lenses from either company can be used on m4/3 bodies.

Sorry, my mistake, I meant Olympus of course

I hope I've not confused too many people

twopenny

Wow that's so kind of you to take the time and trouble to go into such depth John.

I don't understand all of the technical bits (maybe when I'm not tired) but enough for me to make a judgement and start exploring with ease.

Faraway, I didn't know that about Amazon. My local camera shop usually does this but you do need to know a bit about what you are looking for and at the moment with the restrictions, almost no stock. It's definitely something to look into as it's not going to get a lot of wear and tear and I've done well with my 'bargains' in the past.

photodgm

All cameras are a compromise, weight, price, features, including sensor size, number of pixels, quality and focal length of lens, quality of viewfinder, time to start up, lag between pressing shutter and taking the photo, ability to auto focus and many more. Which compromise is best for you will be different from the compromises I would choose to live with. With your local camera shop seeming to be unable to help, you need to look at a range of review sites. A couple have already been mentioned but I would add www.dpreview.com To make the best of these you ideally need to know what style of photos you want to take. For wildlife typically a long focal length, good auto focus tracking, and high number of frames per second. For landscape perhaps a wider lens and good dynamic range would be more important. You should also budget for suitable software to process/manipulate/enhance your photos although some cameras come with downloadable access to software and there are some good open source/free ones available.

Johnmcl7

twopenny said:

Wow that's so kind of you to take the time and trouble to go into such depth John.

I don't understand all of the technical bits (maybe when I'm not tired) but enough for me to make a judgement and start exploring with ease.

I wouldn't worry about the specifics and was just trying to give you an idea of some of the cameras or ranges that might be suitable for you.  It is a lot to take in and I personally find it a challenge to choose the right camera and have quite a range these days some of which looked perfect on paper that I never took to others which I didn't think were my thing and I came to love.

I quite like cameralabs as I feel they have a more real world approach to reviews where I feel some others get a bit bogged down in the technical detail, they have a range of guides as well:
https://www.cameralabs.com/best-camera-buyers-guides/

You've mentioned previous cameras you've used, do you have any particular in mind that you'd like something similar to?

Farway

I've not owned many cameras, starting with Kodak Brownie 127 and finishing up with my current Lumix GX85 which I think is good, but after a year I now wish it had "focus peaking", which was something I never knew existed, which ties in with 2P's technical bits. 

Focus Peaking would be very useful with old manual lenses and my even older eyes.

It was a big jump from my basic turn dial to "flower icon" point & shoot to everything digital so do sympathise with 2p on wanting to look further into it

twopenny

"You've mentioned previous cameras you've used, do you have any particular in mind that you'd like something similar to? "

Ah now that's a good question John. Maybe that's where I should start thinking and researching.

My much loved one was an Olympus Camedia which I can't find a photo of. The quality of the photos was excellent, macro or distance, the verticals straight, the colour consistant and you were able to manipulate the exposure by manual or other means to control the digital. You had a choice of using the screen or the viewfinder. The zoom was low by todays standard but honestly it was as good as my current point and shoot that claims more distance.

Perhaps you've hit the nail on the head. I should first start to look to see if I can get an updated version. However my first attempt the cameras that fit the bill were £800-£1000! But it's a theory worth persuing. I'll also look at some of the suggestions and the 2nd hand market. I will start as soon as the weather breaks. Still too nice to sit on a computer.

Farway

twopenny said:

"You've mentioned previous cameras you've used, do you have any particular in mind that you'd like something similar to? "

Ah now that's a good question John. Maybe that's where I should start thinking and researching.

My much loved one was an Olympus Camedia which I can't find a photo of. The quality of the photos was excellent, macro or distance, the verticals straight, the colour consistant and you were able to manipulate the exposure by manual or other means to control the digital. You had a choice of using the screen or the viewfinder. The zoom was low by todays standard but honestly it was as good as my current point and shoot that claims more distance.

Perhaps you've hit the nail on the head. I should first start to look to see if I can get an updated version. However my first attempt the cameras that fit the bill were £800-£1000! But it's a theory worth persuing. I'll also look at some of the suggestions and the 2nd hand market. I will start as soon as the weather breaks. Still too nice to sit on a computer.

I found some pics, seems there's a lot of versions about, and one used on Amazon US, $100 inc shipping, but no doubt a thorough search would produce other options, including new ones on flea bay around $150

They are out there 2P and it seems for quite a reasonable price.