SCAM!! Over £8000 Taken from account

gazza85

My Girlfriend yesterday noticed a stange deliveroo transactionm which when looked into uncovered her account had been compromised. Earlier that day she'd been updating her address details on all her account as we've recently moved.. There was a criminal gang monitoring her emails and messaged her as soon as she started to receive confirmation emails, telling her she had to confirm it was her and asked her account details. Stupidly she replied and thats how they got in! increasing her overdraft and attempting to apply for large loans and finally before emptying her account, ordering a £150 banquet on Deliveroo. After she called the bank they said they would call her again later to confirm what was being done.. later that eveing see received a call from who she believed to be her bank! Wrong, they then told her to urgently get her sister (who had been transfered money earlier) to transfer that money into a new Safe Hold account so that it couldnt be taken again.. being in such a state already, she just complied and sent it over to the account. She found out in the bank this morning that this wasn't them.... unfortunately I was at work and not contactable when this was all going on!

My main worry now is, will this money be covered or is she now liable for the lose? Her bank has set her up a new account with the deliveroo money going back in.. but only said there was now an investigation into the remaining transcations..

eskbanker

I don't think anyone on here can advise definitively based on that summary so she'll need to wait for the investigation to take its course and see how much, if any, responsibility the bank are prepared to accept for what happened, but on the face of it it doesn't sound promising - if she divulged her online banking credentials then her bank is unlikely to be sympathetic, so it's not like authorised push payment scams where they'll reimburse under the recent voluntary code.  Did she also disclose her full card details to allow the Deliveroo transaction - on the face of it it's unclear why the bank are singling that one out for reimbursement?

born_again

How many times do banks have to state WE NEVER ASK YOU TO MOVE MONEY TO A SAFE ACCOUNT....
How was she updating her address details? 
How do you know they were monitoring her emails?

gazza85

After seeing the deliveroo transaction she called the number on the back of her card.. she was advised the fraud team were busy and that she would get a call back. The call process was the same as any other, recorded message, press one etc.  The bank claim this 18min call didn't get through to them as they have no record of it. Yet she has it on her mobile call log along with the calls made to the same number the next day which they acknowledge.. being told to expect a call then left her open to believing whatever they told her that afternoon when she got the call. Not to mention the panic and stress she was put under while on the phone. 
My other thought was shouldn't increasing an overdraft then immediately making 3 large transactions to totally clear the account have flagged up some kind of irregular activity on the account?

gazza85

born_again said:

How many times do banks have to state WE NEVER ASK YOU TO MOVE MONEY TO A SAFE ACCOUNT...

I have multiple bank accounts and never recall seeing this message. Yes I'd know not to.. but I haven't called my bank before on the number they suggest online to report fraud, and been told to expect a call back from a fraud team. Then receive a call to put the frighteners up me about my money being at risk later that day. If I was expecting that call I may be less likely to question it.

I don't know how the initial call didn't reach the bank. As I mentioned before, they  acknowledge her calls the next day did. A quick search online shows this number has been used 100s of times for this type of app fraud. Bit Mainly recieving calls. Has this gang got a way of intercepting calls to this number? I wouldn't have a clue.

gg23

gazza85 said:

born_again said:

How many times do banks have to state WE NEVER ASK YOU TO MOVE MONEY TO A SAFE ACCOUNT...

I have multiple bank accounts and never recall seeing this message. Yes I'd know not to.. but I haven't called my bank before on the number they suggest online to report fraud, and been told to expect a call back from a fraud team. Then receive a call to put the frighteners up me about my money being at risk later that day. If I was expecting that call I may be less likely to question it.

I don't know how the initial call didn't reach the bank. As I mentioned before, they  acknowledge her calls the next day did. A quick search online shows this number has been used 100s of times for this type of app fraud. Bit Mainly recieving calls. Has this gang got a way of intercepting calls to this number? I wouldn't have a clue.

What was the number?  Even if the call appeared to be from a legitimate bank number, CLI can easily be faked (it is in fact routinely "faked" when it's from a non-geographical number but that's perhaps not relevant.)

I suspect the scammers knew that the banks' anti-fraud measures would probably not trigger to an existing payee (not sure about the Deliveroo thing to be honest) and then waited a few hours and claimed to be from the bank to enact Phase 2 where they then convinced the victim to convince the other victim (the sister) to transfer the money across.  I think the fact that your girlfriend had contacted them first and they were busy was probably known to the scammers.

I also suspect that the money being transferred to her sister and then being sent at your girlfriends' request muddies the waters quite a bit.  It'll be interesting to see what the bank use as a reason for refusing to reimburse your girlfriend.

MalMonroe

gazza85 said:

born_again said:

How many times do banks have to state WE NEVER ASK YOU TO MOVE MONEY TO A SAFE ACCOUNT...

I have multiple bank accounts and never recall seeing this message. Yes I'd know not to.. but I haven't called my bank before on the number they suggest online to report fraud, and been told to expect a call back from a fraud team. Then receive a call to put the frighteners up me about my money being at risk later that day. If I was expecting that call I may be less likely to question it.

I don't know how the initial call didn't reach the bank. As I mentioned before, they  acknowledge her calls the next day did. A quick search online shows this number has been used 100s of times for this type of app fraud. Bit Mainly recieving calls. Has this gang got a way of intercepting calls to this number? I wouldn't have a clue.

Yes, there was a programme on TV about this very thing a few weeks ago. Fraudsters have ways of mimicking genuine phone numbers and also making up telephone numbers to look like genuine numbers, which of course they're not. They do have ways of intercepting calls and they're experts at doing it. Honest folk, like me and you, wouldn't have a clue. Because we're not criminals. 

Scammers also get people to voluntarily transfer money to them by using the word 'urgent'. 

There is some info from Citizens Advice here about who else to report scams to, it may be helpful. 
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/banking/banking-security-and-fraud/

gg23

MalMonroe said:

gazza85 said:

born_again said:

How many times do banks have to state WE NEVER ASK YOU TO MOVE MONEY TO A SAFE ACCOUNT...

I have multiple bank accounts and never recall seeing this message. Yes I'd know not to.. but I haven't called my bank before on the number they suggest online to report fraud, and been told to expect a call back from a fraud team. Then receive a call to put the frighteners up me about my money being at risk later that day. If I was expecting that call I may be less likely to question it.

I don't know how the initial call didn't reach the bank. As I mentioned before, they  acknowledge her calls the next day did. A quick search online shows this number has been used 100s of times for this type of app fraud. Bit Mainly recieving calls. Has this gang got a way of intercepting calls to this number? I wouldn't have a clue.

Yes, there was a programme on TV about this very thing a few weeks ago. Fraudsters have ways of mimicking genuine phone numbers and also making up telephone numbers to look like genuine numbers, which of course they're not. They do have ways of intercepting calls and they're experts at doing it. Honest folk, like me and you, wouldn't have a clue. Because we're not criminals. 

Scammers also get people to voluntarily transfer money to them by using the word 'urgent'. 

There is some info from Citizens Advice here about who else to report scams to, it may be helpful. 

It's not really "a way of mimicking" as all CLI is essentially fake.  It's what you want to present. Although most users don't have a choice of what is presented, most companies do, as they use non-geographical numbers which are in and of themselves "fake"

I do think there should be greater regulation of this going forward as it is clear the current trust-based system isn't working.

mazzetti

I would put it stronger than that I think that CLI should be legally required to show the correct telephone number and that would stop pretty much this type of scam in its tracks

 in a similar way as if Microsoft Windows has file extension 'shown' as default rather than 'hidden' allowing people to see when a file is an EXE file

gazza85

MalMonroe said:

Yes, there was a programme on TV about this very thing a few weeks ago. Fraudsters have ways of mimicking genuine phone numbers and also making up telephone numbers to look like genuine numbers, which of course they're not. They do have ways of intercepting calls and they're experts at doing it. Honest folk, like me and you, wouldn't have a clue. Because we're not criminals. 

So should one of the arguements for liability with the bank be that if they're aware the scammers have ways of intercepting calls to them & mimicking their numbers, they should then not advise people to call the number on the back of their cards to report urgent incidents such as fraud, and instead visit a bank (if theres any left soon)? My Auntie is Manager of a bank and has advised me that if she did get through to a legitimate advisor of the bank they would never have said to expect a call back from a fraud team and imidiate action should have been taken to freeze and protect her account.. so either the banks representative was negligent or she got through to scammers by calling the advised number by her bank, and I'm hoping my first point is reasonable? I'm not trying to take all blame away, I'm angry and anoyed she fell for this.. but the initial call plays a massive part in her complying with the call later that day.

JamoLew

MalMonroe said:

Yes, there was a programme on TV about this very thing a few weeks ago. Fraudsters have ways of mimicking genuine phone numbers and also making up telephone numbers to look like genuine numbers, which of course they're not. They do have ways of intercepting calls and they're experts at doing it. Honest folk, like me and you, wouldn't have a clue. Because we're not criminals. 

Its amazingly simple - plenty of Apps around to do it - I could theoretically (and in reality) spoof a call to your mobile and it would show on the caller display as Mum, Sister, Jim however they are stored in the phone