Notice to Keeper from PPS

PPSLayer

Hi All,
Firstly, thank you for all the information and support provided in these threads. I've spent countless hours reading and nearly gave up but I won't let them win and continue preying on others.

Before you ask, I've read the Newbies thread and have the One Size Fits All (OSFA) template in another tab waiting to be sent to PPS (Newton Abbott based) but before I do, I had some questions I hoped could be answered:
Regarding the incident, the driver drove into a lane (I think a Google maps image would be better but I'm unable to posts any links) which was monitored by PPS for a car park in the near vicinity. The driver, however, drove past the car park and towards the end of the lane where there were no marked bays/signage regarding ANPR thus understood that the driver had gone passed the paid zone. Of course, this isn't the case and the driver found out that regardless of where the car went, as soon as it entered the area and left, a charge was made.

The landowners were called and were unable to help as they claim 'the entire area is private property thus charges are made at entry regardless of whether an actual spot had been used or not'. Can people use a coastal footpath near where the car is parked if the land there is private? I don't understand how that works.
Also, the driver has photographic evidence taken on an iPhone showing in between the contravention times i.e let's say the period of parking is 12-1pm, a photo at 12:30pm that the vehicle is near the end of the cliff and no bay has been used. This is backed up by the timings built-in on the phone as well as the geo-location as well as the actual image itself being of the sea in very close proximity.

This leads to my question, do I just send the OSFA template or shall I send it along with my explanation as the keeper and photos showing that it was not parked in a bay? What if they claim they can charge as soon as entering (which I'm unsure because surely then no loss has been incurred if a parking spot hasn't been occupied) and that providing photos proves to them that the driver was there?

The signage is very poor too, I read in the Beavis case that one of the reasons it was rejected was because the signage was clear and the fine was bold and easily read, this can not be said about PPS' signs as the font is extremely small. Can I also put them to strict proof to show the car had parked in a spot rather than photographic evidence just showing the car entering and exiting?

Shall I appeal with full details or just the OSFA template at the first stage? I'm thinking if I do with full details then they won't bother to pursue rather than thinking that it's just a template without any backing?

Thanks and Best Regards,

PPSlayer

Coupon-mad

The landowners were called and were unable to help as they claim 'the entire area is private property thus charges are made at entry regardless of whether an actual spot had been used or not'. Can people use a coastal footpath near where the car is parked if the land there is private? 

Private land just means non-Council land!  It has no special meaning. Your local Tesco car park is private land and people use it.

I'm thinking if I do with full details then they won't bother to pursue rather than thinking that it's just a template without any backing?

That just never happens!  If it were that simple to see off an ex-clamper PPC the NEWBIES thread would say so (or be redundant!).

 the driver has photographic evidence taken on an iPhone showing in between the contravention times i.e let's say the period of parking is 12-1pm, a photo at 12:30pm that the vehicle is near the end of the cliff and no bay has been used. This is backed up by the timings built-in on the phone as well as the geo-location as well as the actual image itself being of the sea in very close proximity.

I would attach that to the template appeal and change it a bit to say the driver drove past the car park and was not in fact parked in it.  Just DON'T add words that suggest who was driving.  No 'me, myself or I'.

Is this Premier Parking Solutions Ltd  or PPS (London) Ltd? 

You do realise if it's the former, there is no second appeal as they are IPC?

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up later this year,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

PPSLayer

Coupon-mad said:

Private land just means non-Council land!  It has no special meaning. Your local Tesco car park is private land and people use it.
I mean that since they claim it's private land, are they allowed to charge on any point even without marked bays?

I would attach that to the template appeal and change it a bit to say the driver drove past the car park and was not in fact parked in it.  Just DON'T add words that suggest who was driving.  No 'me, myself or I'.
Will do, thank you!

Is this Premier Parking Solutions Ltd  or PPS (London) Ltd?  
It's Premier Parking Solutions Ltd.

You do realise if it's the former, there is no second appeal as they are IPC?
Could you explain a bit more please?

PPSLayer

D_P_Dance said:

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs, and in some cases, cancellation. 
Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up later this year,
Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.
Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/ of these Private Parking Companies.

Would my MP do anything about it? Or you mean in general to prevent these companies from operating?

Redx

the newbies thread explains the IPC part, and not using any second appeal to the IAS, if you have to ask , you have not read it even though you claim you have read it

for IPC members, its a landowner complaint and a single appeal to the parking company, which they almost always reject, then its stalemate until court

anyone can send you an invoice for anything at all, as they have done

private parking companies only monitor private land, when engaged to do so as a third party contractor, they rarely own the land they manage

its for a judge to decide if it can be enforced or not, not us , this is what they have done , we say leave it to a judge

PPSLayer

My bad for missing that out!

Redx said:

the newbies thread explains the IPC part, and not using any second appeal to the IAS, if you have to ask , you have not read it even though you claim you have read it

for IPC members, its a landowner complaint and a single appeal to the parking company, which they almost always reject, then its stalemate until court

its for a judge to decide if it can be enforced or not, not us , this is what they have done , we say leave it to a judge

Thanks for the explanation, looks like it's a stalemate and left to the judge.

D_P_Dance

Would my MP do anything about it? 

Might, might not.  Many MPs are in favour of culling these companies.  The votes were passed without a single nay in the Houses.

MothballsWallet

Oh, OP, if you want to write to your MP, you can send them an email via the writetothem.com website - it's free of charge, helps you identify your MP, gives you an acknowledgement and follows up to see if you had a reply.

If the event occurred in a different constituency to your home one, I'd recommend finding out who the MP for that area is via the website but send the email to your MP and ask them to speak to their colleague about it.

Some MPs get a bit funny about people who don't live in "their" constituency contacting them, so best not to antagonise them

#NotSponsored

Coupon-mad

HAVE YOUR SAY .... PLEASE READ THIS!

September 2020 brings your chance to comment on the new (Government Draft) 'proper' Code of Practice to rein in the worst PPC conduct and that of their scam debt collectors - please please can NEWBIES do this and in particular, comment on

(a) the AMOUNT OF THE PARKING CHARGE, WHICH WE ALL AGREE MUST BE LOWER THAN £100, and also

(b) the use of unregulated debt collector firms and the fact that they add a false layer of an extra £60 or £70 to a £100 PCN.  This must stop but you can bet your bottom dollar that the ATAs will have misled the Government if they got a chance and most likely will have spun the same misinformation the BPA did, in 2012, when they gave false figures to Government about the number of court claims and promised that keeper liability would reduce the burden on the courts.   

The BPA said there were up to 90.000 court claims per annum on 2011.  There were 845.  They said that keeper liability would reduce the '90.000 court claims'. In fact, the 845 (in fact just 600 in 2012!) increased to 37000 within two years and is now around 110,000 per year.

ONE OF THE TASKS OF A CONSUMER RESPONSE WILL BE TO POINT OUT THESE LIES AND WARN THE GOVERNMENT THAT IN FACT, REMOVING THE DEBT COLLECTORS ALTOGETHER AND BRINGING IN A ROBUST APPEALS SERVICE WILL REDUCE COURT CLAIMS!

Code of Practice consultation thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6185781/the-draft-private-parking-code-of-practice-pas-232-now-out-for-consultation/p1

Wider Framework plans thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6185830/new-parking-code-of-practice-enforcement-framework-consultation

PPSLayer

MothballsWallet said:

Oh, OP, if you want to write to your MP, you can send them an email via the writetothem.com website - it's free of charge, helps you identify your MP, gives you an acknowledgement and follows up to see if you had a reply.

If the event occurred in a different constituency to your home one, I'd recommend finding out who the MP for that area is via the website but send the email to your MP and ask them to speak to their colleague about it.

Some MPs get a bit funny about people who don't live in "their" constituency contacting them, so best not to antagonise them

#NotSponsored

I will do that! Thank you for the information.