Does anyone remember when the UK had an economy worth investing in?

CreditCardChris

dunstonh said:

CreditCardChris said:

Just had a quick peak at the FTSE 100 performance in relation to the SPX performance. 


I wonder how long before the UK becomes a second world economy, the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania etc come to mind. The UK leaving the EU could actually end of being one of the best decisions for the EU as we have the real chance of ending up a "burden state", where we take more than we contribute so us leaving will probably be a godsend for Europe come 20 years time.

Imagine still claiming to be one of the best economies in the world when it's propped up on dinosaur companies that dominate sectors and have not innovated at all in the last 50 years. Perhaps if Prime Ministers and MPs were not so concerned with lining their own pockets they'd make our lack of economic growth a national emergency and do something about it.
 

The FTSE100 has been a dire performer for 25+ years.  One of the worst there is.   This is in part due to its dividend bias which does harm the UK economy.   However, for investors, the mid and small caps are where the value is for the UK.
The UK economy is not reflected in the FTSE100.
You have been told this in multiple threads before but it doesn't appear to have sunk in yet.

How's this then https://i.gyazo.com/2402f897fe8da37cfbfe028cd4f5c4d8.png

FTSE 250 performance compared to SPX performance, it's not much better. 

CreditCardChris

Our entire GDP is worth less than two US companies.
Think about that for a second... 

Prism

CreditCardChris said:

dunstonh said:

CreditCardChris said:

Just had a quick peak at the FTSE 100 performance in relation to the SPX performance. 


I wonder how long before the UK becomes a second world economy, the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania etc come to mind. The UK leaving the EU could actually end of being one of the best decisions for the EU as we have the real chance of ending up a "burden state", where we take more than we contribute so us leaving will probably be a godsend for Europe come 20 years time.

Imagine still claiming to be one of the best economies in the world when it's propped up on dinosaur companies that dominate sectors and have not innovated at all in the last 50 years. Perhaps if Prime Ministers and MPs were not so concerned with lining their own pockets they'd make our lack of economic growth a national emergency and do something about it.
 

The FTSE100 has been a dire performer for 25+ years.  One of the worst there is.   This is in part due to its dividend bias which does harm the UK economy.   However, for investors, the mid and small caps are where the value is for the UK.
The UK economy is not reflected in the FTSE100.
You have been told this in multiple threads before but it doesn't appear to have sunk in yet.

How's this then https://i.gyazo.com/2402f897fe8da37cfbfe028cd4f5c4d8.png

FTSE 250 performance compared to SPX performance, it's not much better. 

Using the same scale on that chart, 2008 until 2020, the FTSE 250 has performed roughly in line with the S&P 500 - both have returned around 200% until January this year. Of course then the S&P has gone up a bit more down to a handful of tech companies and the FTSE 250 has not yet recovered after the crash.

That doesn't make the FTSE 250 a bad investment - it has kept up and sometimes beaten most other indexes over the long term.

CreditCardChris

Prism said:

CreditCardChris said:

dunstonh said:

CreditCardChris said:

Just had a quick peak at the FTSE 100 performance in relation to the SPX performance. 


I wonder how long before the UK becomes a second world economy, the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania etc come to mind. The UK leaving the EU could actually end of being one of the best decisions for the EU as we have the real chance of ending up a "burden state", where we take more than we contribute so us leaving will probably be a godsend for Europe come 20 years time.

Imagine still claiming to be one of the best economies in the world when it's propped up on dinosaur companies that dominate sectors and have not innovated at all in the last 50 years. Perhaps if Prime Ministers and MPs were not so concerned with lining their own pockets they'd make our lack of economic growth a national emergency and do something about it.
 

The FTSE100 has been a dire performer for 25+ years.  One of the worst there is.   This is in part due to its dividend bias which does harm the UK economy.   However, for investors, the mid and small caps are where the value is for the UK.
The UK economy is not reflected in the FTSE100.
You have been told this in multiple threads before but it doesn't appear to have sunk in yet.

How's this then https://i.gyazo.com/2402f897fe8da37cfbfe028cd4f5c4d8.png

FTSE 250 performance compared to SPX performance, it's not much better. 

Using the same scale on that chart, 2008 until 2020, the FTSE 250 has performed roughly in line with the S&P 500 - both have returned around 200% until January this year. Of course then the S&P has gone up a bit more down to a handful of tech companies and the FTSE 250 has not yet recovered after the crash.

That doesn't make the FTSE 250 a bad investment - it has kept up and sometimes beaten most other indexes over the long term.

FTSE 250 is up 45.82% since the top of the 2008 crash.
SPX is up 123% in the same period, a difference of 77.18%

Not quite sure what chart you're looking at. Anyway my argument isn't really about stock market performance as such, it's about economic growth. I'd love for all the old gas and oil, mining, insurance and banking stocks to be moved over to the "this is where money goes to die" index and make way for some up and coming companies. Ocado is doing good things but struggling to go international for some very strange reason. Meanwhile Uber, airbnb etc manages worldwide integration just fine.

Sounds like the UK government regulation is standing in the way of some companies expanding? Maybe it's time to flush the government and make a new one? One that actually supports and helps companies go global? I hate to use a Trump phrase but maybe it's time we drain our own swamp.

Prism

CreditCardChris said:

Prism said:

CreditCardChris said:

dunstonh said:

CreditCardChris said:

Just had a quick peak at the FTSE 100 performance in relation to the SPX performance. 


I wonder how long before the UK becomes a second world economy, the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania etc come to mind. The UK leaving the EU could actually end of being one of the best decisions for the EU as we have the real chance of ending up a "burden state", where we take more than we contribute so us leaving will probably be a godsend for Europe come 20 years time.

Imagine still claiming to be one of the best economies in the world when it's propped up on dinosaur companies that dominate sectors and have not innovated at all in the last 50 years. Perhaps if Prime Ministers and MPs were not so concerned with lining their own pockets they'd make our lack of economic growth a national emergency and do something about it.
 

The FTSE100 has been a dire performer for 25+ years.  One of the worst there is.   This is in part due to its dividend bias which does harm the UK economy.   However, for investors, the mid and small caps are where the value is for the UK.
The UK economy is not reflected in the FTSE100.
You have been told this in multiple threads before but it doesn't appear to have sunk in yet.

How's this then https://i.gyazo.com/2402f897fe8da37cfbfe028cd4f5c4d8.png

FTSE 250 performance compared to SPX performance, it's not much better. 

Using the same scale on that chart, 2008 until 2020, the FTSE 250 has performed roughly in line with the S&P 500 - both have returned around 200% until January this year. Of course then the S&P has gone up a bit more down to a handful of tech companies and the FTSE 250 has not yet recovered after the crash.

That doesn't make the FTSE 250 a bad investment - it has kept up and sometimes beaten most other indexes over the long term.

FTSE 250 is up 45.82% since the top of the 2008 crash.
SPX is up 123% in the same period, a difference of 77.18%

Not quite sure what chart you're looking at. Anyway my argument isn't really about stock market performance as such, it's about economic growth. I'd love for all the old gas and oil, mining, insurance and banking stocks to be moved over to the "this is where money goes to die" index and make way for some up and coming companies. Ocado is doing good things but struggling to go international for some very strange reason. Meanwhile Uber, airbnb etc manages worldwide integration just fine.

Sounds like the UK government regulation is standing in the way of some companies expanding? Maybe it's time to flush the government and make a new one? One that actually supports and helps companies go global? I hate to use a Trump phrase but maybe it's time we drain our own swamp.

The return on the FTSE 250 from 1/1/2008 until 1/1/2020 was around 190%. You need to stop pulling random charts off the internet and start looking at the real data. Try Trustnet.

Why do you think Ocado is struggling internationally? I thought it sold its software across the globe?
Maybe the oil and gas companies of yesterday will become the green energy and battery companies of the future? We can only hope.

TBC15

If you give the coast guard an E mail I’m sure they could fix you up with a lightly used rubber boat if you think life here is futile.

CreditCardChris

Prism said:

CreditCardChris said:

Prism said:

CreditCardChris said:

dunstonh said:

CreditCardChris said:

Just had a quick peak at the FTSE 100 performance in relation to the SPX performance. 


I wonder how long before the UK becomes a second world economy, the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania etc come to mind. The UK leaving the EU could actually end of being one of the best decisions for the EU as we have the real chance of ending up a "burden state", where we take more than we contribute so us leaving will probably be a godsend for Europe come 20 years time.

Imagine still claiming to be one of the best economies in the world when it's propped up on dinosaur companies that dominate sectors and have not innovated at all in the last 50 years. Perhaps if Prime Ministers and MPs were not so concerned with lining their own pockets they'd make our lack of economic growth a national emergency and do something about it.
 

The FTSE100 has been a dire performer for 25+ years.  One of the worst there is.   This is in part due to its dividend bias which does harm the UK economy.   However, for investors, the mid and small caps are where the value is for the UK.
The UK economy is not reflected in the FTSE100.
You have been told this in multiple threads before but it doesn't appear to have sunk in yet.

How's this then https://i.gyazo.com/2402f897fe8da37cfbfe028cd4f5c4d8.png

FTSE 250 performance compared to SPX performance, it's not much better. 

Using the same scale on that chart, 2008 until 2020, the FTSE 250 has performed roughly in line with the S&P 500 - both have returned around 200% until January this year. Of course then the S&P has gone up a bit more down to a handful of tech companies and the FTSE 250 has not yet recovered after the crash.

That doesn't make the FTSE 250 a bad investment - it has kept up and sometimes beaten most other indexes over the long term.

FTSE 250 is up 45.82% since the top of the 2008 crash.
SPX is up 123% in the same period, a difference of 77.18%

Not quite sure what chart you're looking at. Anyway my argument isn't really about stock market performance as such, it's about economic growth. I'd love for all the old gas and oil, mining, insurance and banking stocks to be moved over to the "this is where money goes to die" index and make way for some up and coming companies. Ocado is doing good things but struggling to go international for some very strange reason. Meanwhile Uber, airbnb etc manages worldwide integration just fine.

Sounds like the UK government regulation is standing in the way of some companies expanding? Maybe it's time to flush the government and make a new one? One that actually supports and helps companies go global? I hate to use a Trump phrase but maybe it's time we drain our own swamp.

The return on the FTSE 250 from 1/1/2008 until 1/1/2020 was around 190%. You need to stop pulling random charts off the internet and start looking at the real data. Try Trustnet.

Why do you think Ocado is struggling internationally? I thought it sold its software across the globe?
Maybe the oil and gas companies of yesterday will become the green energy and battery companies of the future? We can only hope.

I'm not pulling random charts... Look for yourself 

FTSE 250 index tracker https://i.gyazo.com/4322e78da4d97b1a6eff12d71d933727.png 45.8% since 2008 highs
SPX Index https://i.gyazo.com/47cad62ee941d58824ebb5e04e710df7.png 123% since 2008 highs.

Ocado selling their software isn't expansion, they're basically selling their service which American companies will use to start their own Ocados. Instead of physical Ocado vans driving around in America delivering. Ocado are forced to sell their software because they cannot expand physically because of UK regulation. 
It is notoriously difficult for UK companies to expand abroad because the UK government is generally against this prospect and wants to keep everything in house under lock and key. 

Haha I like your jokes... Oil companies will lose the fight to become green, companies like Tesla already leading the charge and oil companies have tens of billions invested in oil production, they just don't have the money to do a complete flip into green solutions, they'll go bankrupt! But they're heading that way anyways. Also oil, insurance, mining, banking etc is ruled by 60 year old men who only know the old ways... It takes a young Elon or a Young Jeff to revolutionise an industry, these 60 year old men have no chance.

Voyager2002

CreditCardChris said:

 Instead of physical Ocado vans driving around in America delivering. Ocado are forced to sell their software because they cannot expand physically because of UK regulation. 
It is notoriously difficult for UK companies to expand abroad because the UK government is generally against this prospect and wants to keep everything in house under lock and key.

Just in case this was serious: the phenomena you describe have NOTHING to do with UK regulation.

Ocado are actually being very sensible in the way they service the North American market. Presumably they have learnt what happened to Tesco when they expanded there (and no, the debacle was nothing to do with our government.)

societys_child

CreditCardChris . . .

Whatever you plan investing in, stop it. stick with your credit card. Seriously, you'll never succeed.

Prism

CreditCardChris said:

Prism said:

CreditCardChris said:

Prism said:

CreditCardChris said:

dunstonh said:

CreditCardChris said:

Just had a quick peak at the FTSE 100 performance in relation to the SPX performance. 


I wonder how long before the UK becomes a second world economy, the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania etc come to mind. The UK leaving the EU could actually end of being one of the best decisions for the EU as we have the real chance of ending up a "burden state", where we take more than we contribute so us leaving will probably be a godsend for Europe come 20 years time.

Imagine still claiming to be one of the best economies in the world when it's propped up on dinosaur companies that dominate sectors and have not innovated at all in the last 50 years. Perhaps if Prime Ministers and MPs were not so concerned with lining their own pockets they'd make our lack of economic growth a national emergency and do something about it.
 

The FTSE100 has been a dire performer for 25+ years.  One of the worst there is.   This is in part due to its dividend bias which does harm the UK economy.   However, for investors, the mid and small caps are where the value is for the UK.
The UK economy is not reflected in the FTSE100.
You have been told this in multiple threads before but it doesn't appear to have sunk in yet.

How's this then https://i.gyazo.com/2402f897fe8da37cfbfe028cd4f5c4d8.png

FTSE 250 performance compared to SPX performance, it's not much better. 

Using the same scale on that chart, 2008 until 2020, the FTSE 250 has performed roughly in line with the S&P 500 - both have returned around 200% until January this year. Of course then the S&P has gone up a bit more down to a handful of tech companies and the FTSE 250 has not yet recovered after the crash.

That doesn't make the FTSE 250 a bad investment - it has kept up and sometimes beaten most other indexes over the long term.

FTSE 250 is up 45.82% since the top of the 2008 crash.
SPX is up 123% in the same period, a difference of 77.18%

Not quite sure what chart you're looking at. Anyway my argument isn't really about stock market performance as such, it's about economic growth. I'd love for all the old gas and oil, mining, insurance and banking stocks to be moved over to the "this is where money goes to die" index and make way for some up and coming companies. Ocado is doing good things but struggling to go international for some very strange reason. Meanwhile Uber, airbnb etc manages worldwide integration just fine.

Sounds like the UK government regulation is standing in the way of some companies expanding? Maybe it's time to flush the government and make a new one? One that actually supports and helps companies go global? I hate to use a Trump phrase but maybe it's time we drain our own swamp.

The return on the FTSE 250 from 1/1/2008 until 1/1/2020 was around 190%. You need to stop pulling random charts off the internet and start looking at the real data. Try Trustnet.

Why do you think Ocado is struggling internationally? I thought it sold its software across the globe?
Maybe the oil and gas companies of yesterday will become the green energy and battery companies of the future? We can only hope.

I'm not pulling random charts... Look for yourself 

FTSE 250 index tracker https://i.gyazo.com/4322e78da4d97b1a6eff12d71d933727.png 45.8% since 2008 highs
SPX Index https://i.gyazo.com/47cad62ee941d58824ebb5e04e710df7.png 123% since 2008 highs.

Ocado selling their software isn't expansion, they're basically selling their service which American companies will use to start their own Ocados. Instead of physical Ocado vans driving around in America delivering. Ocado are forced to sell their software because they cannot expand physically because of UK regulation. 
It is notoriously difficult for UK companies to expand abroad because the UK government is generally against this prospect and wants to keep everything in house under lock and key. 

Haha I like your jokes... Oil companies will lose the fight to become green, companies like Tesla already leading the charge and oil companies have tens of billions invested in oil production, they just don't have the money to do a complete flip into green solutions, they'll go bankrupt! But they're heading that way anyways. Also oil, insurance, mining, banking etc is ruled by 60 year old men who only know the old ways... It takes a young Elon or a Young Jeff to revolutionise an industry, these 60 year old men have no chance.

If you are going to do a comparison you need to display total return charts... those ones of yours are irrelevant. 

Are you sure that Ocado actually want to be a global food retailer rather than a software platform and licenser? 

I was kind of joking about BP and Shell but you never know. You should see some new tech companies appearing on the main markets over the next few years. The Hut Group IPOs in a few weeks, then you have Transferwise. Quite a few UK tech companies are unlisted.