Hybrids -- pros and cons.

RichardD1970

NaughtiusMaximus said:

MinuteNoodles said:

Full electric or nothing. Hybrids are literally the worst of both worlds. Very short range on electric only, partly due to battery size constraints because of fuel tanks and additional weight penalty from the ICE engine, running on fuel the economy worse than a conventional petrol/diesel engined vehicle due to the additional weight penalty of the battery, fuel economy is actually worse than an equivalent size ICE engined vehicle. For example the above Prius the long term MPG is 50MPG which even my 10 year old 155,000 mile 2 litre Mondeo diesel which is larger managed to beat, my current Ford Focus is doing 64/65MPG going up to over 70MPG on a run.

In terms of economy it all depends on the type of driving you do. I've owned a Niro for 2 months, around town I get 57mpg, no diesel car I've ever owned (ie every car I've owned for the previous 20 years) comes close to that. For motorway driving the figure drops closer to 50mpg which is generally worse than diesel. 

Fuel isn't the only running cost to take into account though, the regenerative braking in a hybrid greatly reduces brake wear over the long term.

How is the Nero? I am considering either that or a Hyundai Kona.
Had Kia's before and have been impressed.

UncleZen

MinuteNoodles is mixing up plugin hybrids with self charging hybrids, also not to be confused with mild hybrids (which you get in most new petrol cars these days). 
And for my 2p worth, I recently  drove a 2017 auris hybrid. Just pottering about was getting over 60mpg. And reasonably lively in sport mode, but economy suffers. For me, I'd easily get mid 50s mpg. My next car will be a self charging hybrid, probably a 2.0 auris or chr.
Don't worry about traction battery issues they are very reliable. Do some research on 12v battery issues on Toyota hybrids that have been left standing for a while.

MinuteNoodles

I'm not mixing them up, they're all tarred with the same brush. 

Grumpy_chap

UncleZen said:

Do some research on 12v battery issues on Toyota hybrids that have been left standing for a while.

I am not sure how that is helpful - are you saying these are a problem and we should avoid?

UncleZen

No, I'm saying there are issues with the 12v batteries discharging after the vehicle has been left for an extended period, eg. Lockdown is an example. Look at the Toyota forums there are many examples of this. Toyota know about it and resolve it for free in most cases. Im saying DYOR it may not apply to you, but you should be aware. It may affect your purchase decision.

almillar

MinuteNoodles said:

I'm not mixing them up, they're all tarred with the same brush. 

You've made several accusations which others have correctly stated are wrong, so what tar do you have left?

They produce more brake dust - NO. They (EV, Plug-in Hybrid EV, non plug in hybrid EV (don't call it self charging!)produce far less brake dust, because they all use the electric motor for engine braking, which provides power back (regen), and steals the first stage of braking (all but the heaviest) away from the brake disks.

They have a higher centre of gravity due to the batteries. NO. The COG is LOWER due to the batteries, because the batteries are stored very low in the car. Total weight is usually up though.

And as a gross generalisation, a hybrid will do better than a diesel on urban journeys for MPG, and a diesel could beat it on longer, faster out of town journeys. The further and faster you drive, the lower proportion of driving is done on battery, therefore, will be done on petrol.

onlyfoolsandparking

@MinuteNoodles
As you once advised me,maybe you should look for an evening class on the different types of EV,s and learn how they operate?

NaughtiusMaximus

RichardD1970 said:

NaughtiusMaximus said:

MinuteNoodles said:

Full electric or nothing. Hybrids are literally the worst of both worlds. Very short range on electric only, partly due to battery size constraints because of fuel tanks and additional weight penalty from the ICE engine, running on fuel the economy worse than a conventional petrol/diesel engined vehicle due to the additional weight penalty of the battery, fuel economy is actually worse than an equivalent size ICE engined vehicle. For example the above Prius the long term MPG is 50MPG which even my 10 year old 155,000 mile 2 litre Mondeo diesel which is larger managed to beat, my current Ford Focus is doing 64/65MPG going up to over 70MPG on a run.

In terms of economy it all depends on the type of driving you do. I've owned a Niro for 2 months, around town I get 57mpg, no diesel car I've ever owned (ie every car I've owned for the previous 20 years) comes close to that. For motorway driving the figure drops closer to 50mpg which is generally worse than diesel. 

Fuel isn't the only running cost to take into account though, the regenerative braking in a hybrid greatly reduces brake wear over the long term.

How is the Nero? I am considering either that or a Hyundai Kona.
Had Kia's before and have been impressed.

I'm very happy with it:

Pros
- Exceptionally well equipped - I have the top spec 4 model but IMO even the mid range 3 version has a similar spec to the top of the range cars of the same class and price range.
 - Comfortable
- Economical as mentioned previously

Cons
- Not an exciting drive, but then if that's what you want from a car you wouldn't be looking at a hybrid anyway
- Boot is smaller than you'd expect for a car of this size, in part because it seems quite shallow. One reason for this is, although it only comes with a pump and tyre repair goo as standard, there is space for a full size spare wheel under the boot floor, pretty rare these days.

We did consider the Kona but were put off from the moment we sat in it. Although from the outside it looks like an SUV/crossover, ride height is actually lower and more in line with what you'd expect in a standard car. My partner is disabled and a higher seating position makes it much easier for her to get in and our of the car.