Advice needed please - LETTER BEFORE ACTION - Carflow -> UPDATE - County court claim form received

TranceNRG

Hi ladies and gents,
I was hoping you would help me with how to respond to Letter before action from Carflow.
Here's a bit of background: In February this year, I parked my car at Carflow's London Acton car park to go to my gym (The gym Acton). Gym members get 2 hours for free (you have to sign in on a screen as you enter the gym) but on this particular day, I forgot what time exactly I had parked me car and thinking I had a bit more time, after the gym, I went to the Lidl supermarket which was located in the same building (for about 10-15 mins). Anyway I had overstayed by 17 minutes according to Carflow's records. 
I received a fine in the post a few days later. I sent them an email saying this was my first time overstaying, there should be a grace period and asking them to cancel the fine kindly. The replied back saying I had overstayed logner than the grace period and I would need pay the fine. They sent multiple threatening letters and I didn't respond. I emailed The gym and told them Carflow were harrassing me and asked them to contact them and cancel the fine but they basically replied saying they have no control over the car park and they couldn't help.
In July I recieved the following Letter before action:

page 1: https://imgur.com/p69ZFB7

page 2: https://imgur.com/BNmwiaz

I followed the advice given in this thread and sent them an acknowledgement letter:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4754020/parking-letter-before-county-court-claim-lbccc-fight-back-guidance-thread
My acknowledgement letter basically said their letter was not fully compliant with Practice Direction and they need to send me a  fully compliant letter so I can deal with obligations under the Practice Direction. I also sent them an email them with a copy of the acknowledgement letter :

I received a reply to the email saying the following: "Our legal team have ensured us that we have fully complied with Practice Direction. If there is something specific that you feel isn’t compliant please let us know and we will endeavour to address this if appropriate."

I replied to the email with the following: 

"I believe the letter didn't fully comply with practice direction as I wasn't provided all the required information. The following were missing :

1. Contract between the Land owner and Carflow 

2. How the amounts were calculated 

3. What alternative dispute resolution was available 

 Once this information has been provided I will respond accordingly."

Last week I received a reply email with the following:
https://imgur.com/v6VR0pQ
They had also attached a document to the email contaning pictures of the car park and their terms and condiitions. This file is attached to this post.

So they are basically saying opportunity for ADR has passed even though in their Letter of action, it mentions they are wlling to consider ADR (written by 2 different teams/people?). In my previous email I had asked for a contract between Carflow and the landlord (as suggested by the advice thread) but that's not what I received. 

How should I respond to this? If this goes to the court, do I even have a case? Should I offer them the original amount (£60) on a without prejudice basis to stop the hassle? 
Thank you very much for reading and any advice.
*** UPDATE -  I have now received a County court claim form. Please go to page 2 for my post with details.

KeithP

TranceNRG said:

 I followed the advice given in this thread and sent them an acknowledgement letter:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4754020/parking-letter-before-county-court-claim-lbccc-fight-back-guidance-thread

Did you get as far as reading this post on that thread?

That thread is very very old. Exactly seven years old today. A lot has changed since then - not least the Practice Direction.

You are best advised to follow the guidance offered in the NEWBIES thread. The NEWBIES thread is kept up to date.

Le_Kirk

That is not a formal letter before/of claim as it only gave you 14 days to respond.  Fave you submitted a SAR to Carflow (although I suspect you will have had all the data they hold on you.  You should wait for a "proper" LBC but in the meantime if you want, you can write back asking upon what "lawful authority" they add the £20 late payment fee.  Do not be surprised to receive a reply that is within the BPA Code of Practice - it may well be but that is only a set of rules for their boys club and not enshrined in law!

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up later this year,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

TranceNRG

KeithP said:

TranceNRG said:

 I followed the advice given in this thread and sent them an acknowledgement letter:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4754020/parking-letter-before-county-court-claim-lbccc-fight-back-guidance-thread

Did you get as far as reading this post on that thread?

That thread is very very old. Exactly seven years old today. A lot has changed since then - not least the Practice Direction.

You are best advised to follow the guidance offered in the NEWBIES thread. The NEWBIES thread is kept up to date.

I didn't read until the end to be fair and read the first page where the advice was give. I found that thread when doing a search. Sorry didn't realise there was another more relevant thread. I knew Practice Direction had changed but I thought the approach to responding to car parking companies hadn't. 
I'll try reading the thread you mentioned. Thanks. 

TranceNRG

Le_Kirk said:

That is not a formal letter before/of claim as it only gave you 14 days to respond.  Fave you submitted a SAR to Carflow (although I suspect you will have had all the data they hold on you.  You should wait for a "proper" LBC but in the meantime if you want, you can write back asking upon what "lawful authority" they add the £20 late payment fee.  Do not be surprised to receive a reply that is within the BPA Code of Practice - it may well be but that is only a set of rules for their boys club and not enshrined in law!

I thought 14 days was sufficient (I think I read something like that in Practice Direction). 
Are we sure this is not the proper letter? Does anyone else want to comment? 

KeithP

TranceNRG said:

Le_Kirk said:

That is not a formal letter before/of claim as it only gave you 14 days to respond.  Fave you submitted a SAR to Carflow (although I suspect you will have had all the data they hold on you.  You should wait for a "proper" LBC but in the meantime if you want, you can write back asking upon what "lawful authority" they add the £20 late payment fee.  Do not be surprised to receive a reply that is within the BPA Code of Practice - it may well be but that is only a set of rules for their boys club and not enshrined in law!

I thought 14 days was sufficient (I think I read something like that in Practice Direction). 
Are we sure this is not the proper letter? Does anyone else want to comment? 

That's something else that has changed.

A Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims was introduced a few years ago - October 2017 if I'm remembering correctly. It insists on thirty days notice of any pending court action, not fourteen days.

Le_Kirk

A letter before/of action (LBA/LBC/LBCC) has to give thirty days notice, contain financial forms (which you do NOT fill in) and it should contain the claimant's case and proof (i.e. what they are going to rely on in court).

Umkomaas

I'm not sure why you're overly concerned as to whether it is or is not a formal LBA. If a court claim is going to be issued, that will come sooner or later, and it's then the real action has to start. 

For what it's worth, I'll join the others in saying that what you've received isn't a LBA that complies with the PaP. 

BrownTrout

car flow issue a high number of claims in proportion to tickets issued

Umkomaas

BrownTrout said:

car flow issue a high number of claims in proportion to tickets issued

Last year - 6718 KADOE requests, 19 court hearings.