POPLA appeal unsuccessful over bizarre keying error claim

nosferatu1001

Yes, of course it is worth fightihng
Any actual hearing, IF they dare to take it to court, would be 6 months or more away
IT IS NOT A FINE

Le_Kirk

Is it EXACTLY one hour later? Could it be the clock not being set/reset for GMT/BST?

Umkomaas

Le_Kirk said:

Is it EXACTLY one hour later? Could it be the clock not being set/reset for GMT/BST?

Long shot:

A propos to the above - did the parking event take place around the time the clocks were going forward/back?  

Redx

By what has been said I believe that a judge would see this as de minimis and laugh it out of court , but Keep that paid for ticket and take pictures of it too , it's good dust

Any court action is months or years away

Get your local MP on the case too

Fruitcake

Think of it as a chore, a minor annoyance. It is certainly nothing to get stressed about. You can do all the leg work/heavy lifting as long as it is done in your partner's name and with her knowledge.

The scammers are bullying an innocent motorist. This is how they work, going on and on, telling lies, omitting the truth, hoping the victim will crumble so the scammers don't get the roasting in court they know they will get.

A loss in court would amount to about £175 - £200, and no risk to the ability to obtain credit as long as the judgment is paid straight away.
A win in court could get the victim up to £95.

Paying now would be funding the scammers and perpetuating the scam. At least one MP thinks the money from these scams goes to people traffickers and organised crime.

Fruitcake

Reading back, the scammers seem to be very confused.

The company that issued the court claim is a stranger to the alleged parking event. It's a different company with a different name and company number to that on the parking signs, therefore in law the claimant is a stranger to the contract offered on said signs.

The parking ticket retained by the driver has seven random characters printed on it that do not resemble the VRM in any way. If this was the same that the scammers allege was entered into the pay machine, then they would have claimed a major keying error and demanded £100, not a minor keying error and demanded £20 earlier on. They have contradicted themselves.

If the original charge was for £20, as thoughtfully documented at the PoPLA appeal stage, then any court claim must be for £20 plus allowable costs only.


I have come across a P & D machine at Southmead Hospital, Bristol, where the sleeve of my coat passing over but not touching the keypad caused random characters to appear.
The good news was that the car park was not mismanaged by unregulated scammers, and an error message appeared saying the random characters did not match the VRM of any vehicles in captured on entry, so I couldn't pay nor could I exit until my correct VRM had been (carefully) entered.
Touchpads/touchscreens are incorrectly named because they detect close proximity of a physical object as well as contact and can actually be operated without touching the screen. You can see this if you hover your fingers over a keypad without touching it, and eventually it will trigger the system when you get close enough.

What I'm getting at is that electronic keypads can generate random characters, but the technology exists to prevent an incorrect VRM being entered.
Scammers have steadfastly refused to install software that would eliminate problems caused by keying errors because it would put a dent in their profits.

As for ANPR scameras, they do not read VRMs. If you take a photo' with a camera, the device itself cannot read it. Either a human has to look at it and read it, or the digital image is run through an Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software programme which then produces an approximation of what the human eye can see, but it is prone to mistakes.
Rusty screws, cracks, dirt, leaves, light and shade can all fool the OCR programme and come up with something completely different to the actual VRM. The letters O and the number Zero on a number plate are identical. The letter I and the number 1 are very similar, and other characters can also confuse the system.

The UK Government has prohibited the use of ANPR scameras in council and local authority car parks because it is deemed unfit for purpose. It has a known failure rate of between 3 to 8 %, and where double dipping occurs, this failure rate is 50%.

Scammers continue to use these scameras with their known faulty issues and OCR failings simply because the flaws generate money for them.

Umkomaas

If this was the same that the scammers allege was entered into the pay machine, then they would have claimed a major keying error and demanded £100, not a minor keying error and demanded £20 earlier on. They have contradicted themselves.

I think a minor keying error is 'no charge', a major keying error is £20. I don't think there's a Code of Practice backed £100 for any keying error. 

Coupon-mad

That's correct.

Fruitcake

My mistake. That's what happens when I try to do things from memory instead of going back to the info source. 

drbayleaf

Hi all, how did you get on @sulky_lizard?

Fruitcake wrote:

"but the technology exists to prevent an incorrect VRM being entered. Scammers have steadfastly refused to install software that would eliminate problems caused by keying errors because it would put a dent in their profits."

resonates with my situation and an argument i'd like to put to a judge (if it gets that far).

I work in the Internet of Things. I know there exists the technology to provide the PayByPhone (etc) apps with ANPR OCR entry timestamps. This would adequately inform motorists when their car entered said carpark to enable the accurate exit time to be known and payment to be booked accordingly.