POPLA appeal unsuccessful over bizarre keying error claim

sulky_lizard

Hi guys, first-time user here. I notice there has been a lot of parking ticket/POPLA cases reported here, so could do with some advice.

 My partner recently parked in a car park in Basildon, Essex, owned by Britannia. Having bought and displayed her ticket, she was shocked a week later to receive a PCN through the post, claiming that she hadn’t bought a valid parking ticket for her 30-minute stay. They used a tiny photo of her car as “proof”.

 Fortunately, my partner had kept her parking ticket, which we used as evidence in our appeal, thinking that would be the end of it. We had more than 30mins left of our stay. The operator responded saying that they now believed a “keying error” had been made and reduced her fine to £20.

 However, because no evidence had been provided of what this alleged keying error may have been, and because her parking ticket didn’t print the reg she had entered (or so we thought), we appealed to POPLA. It seemed like the operator was withholding information about the keying error and we questioned why the operator hadn’t discovered a similar reg to my partner’s in their system and not disclose it. The POPLA website also said in cases where a minor keying error is made, which we figured must have happened, the appellant always wins.

 We were therefore triply shocked when our POPLA appeal was unsuccessful. How, I thought?

 Having read through POPLA’s lengthy reply to find out the reason for this rejection, I finally found out – apparently the parking ticket DID print the reg my partner allegedly entered. Except this seven-digit was COMPLETELY different to my partner’s car reg. Every digit was miles out and the pattern bore zero resemblance. I’m talking “DD” instead of “ZX” and “0” instead of “7" kinda out. Needless to say, it’s why we thought the parking ticket hadn’t printed my partner’s reg, which I had clearly explained in our appeal. (Which POPLA chose to ignore). Obviously, this changed everything.

I don't want to sound condescending, my partner is an intelligent, healthy woman in her 30s. There is just NO way a sane, rational, sober person with the mental capacity to have driven and parked a car would have got ALL seven digits horribly wrong. It defies belief. Furthermore, in the operator’s subsequent evidence during our POPLA appeal, it appeared to show that a car with my partner’s reg had parked exactly one hour later, but with only one digit entered incorrect. Fishy???

Naturally, we're very confused as to what has exactly happened, but it seems that some serious malfunction has occurred somewhere! Had we realised that the seven digits on my partner’s ticket was the alleged reg she entered, our appeal to POPLA would have been very, very different.As it is, POPLA has discounted her appeal based on a “major keying error”.

Subsequently, her fine has gone back to £100. I’m just wondering what we should do and if anyone can offer any other rational explanation as to what may have happened. Are ticket machines known to malfunction in some mad way? Could it have printed someone else’s ticket by mistake? Is this just a shocking scam that others have experienced? Should we fight this to the death or have we been royally screwed over?

I can understand my partner making one or two keying errors at most, but all seven digits?!?
Thanks in advance!

SL

Le_Kirk

Sticky buttons on the keypad?  No one bothers with POPLA losses, the decision is not binding on the motorist.  You just need to wait for the inevitable debt collector letters and the letter before claim and the court papers.  This can be argued in front of a judge.

Umkomaas

Are ticket machines known to malfunction in some mad way? Could it have printed someone else’s ticket by mistake? Is this just a shocking scam that others have experienced?

We see many examples, but in every case the PPC denies any malfunction. Unfortunately trying to prove the point is extremely difficult.  The whole industry is little more than a scam. In fact the country is blighted by a scamdemic. Your partner has been infected, just like the 8.4 million motorists similarly infected last year.  The infection rate is significantly higher than Covid will ever reach in the UK!

Should we fight this to the death or have we been royally screwed over?

Unless you can get a landowner cancellation, it will take a Judge to kill this off for you, and your argument (below) is very powerful in my opinion.

Every digit was miles out and the pattern bore zero resemblance. I’m talking “DD” instead of “ZX” and “0” instead of “7" kinda out. Needless to say, it’s why we thought the parking ticket hadn’t printed my partner’s reg, which I had clearly explained in our appeal. (Which POPLA chose to ignore). Obviously, this changed everything.

I don't want to sound condescending, my partner is an intelligent, healthy woman in her 30s. There is just NO way a sane, rational, sober person with the mental capacity to have driven and parked a car would have got ALL seven digits horribly wrong. It defies belief. Furthermore, in the operator’s subsequent evidence during our POPLA appeal, it appeared to show that a car with my partner’s reg had parked exactly one hour later, but with only one digit entered incorrect. Fishy???

The PPC has six years to pursue through the courts, so without a landowner cancellation, this could drag on.  We'll guide you through if/when the time comes. 

Castle

sulky_lizard said:

 Having read through POPLA’s lengthy reply to find out the reason for this rejection, I finally found out – apparently the parking ticket DID print the reg my partner allegedly entered. Except this seven-digit was COMPLETELY different to my partner’s car reg. Every digit was miles out and the pattern bore zero resemblance. I’m talking “DD” instead of “ZX” and “0” instead of “7" kinda out. Needless to say, it’s why we thought the parking ticket hadn’t printed my partner’s reg, which I had clearly explained in our appeal. (Which POPLA chose to ignore). Obviously, this changed everything.

Does this registration number actually exist?
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

D_P_Dance

Many/most of these keying errors are regarded by judges as a waste of court time, if they take this to court they are likely to struggle, read this,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis#:~:text=De%20minimis%20is%20a%20Latin,refuses%20to%20consider%20trifling%20matters.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up later this year,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

t

beamerguy

Confirm everything that is said above

POPLA is no longer suitable for appeals as the "so called" assessors are clueless.  This will please all BPA members who scam the public.  What would the BPA do without their scammers ?

It is proven time and time again that POPLA is useless and a dinosaur when a judge dismisses claims.

So, you now wait to see what the parking company does. Expect to receive daft, silly debt collector letters adding on fake amounts and writing pure waffle.  These idiots are 100% powerless to ignore.

After the timewasting debt collectors give up, see what happens next and come back here.

DO NOT CONSIDER PAYING, you will be supporting a scammer 

Fruitcake

I have personal experience of this sort of thing happening at Bristol Southmead Hospital. ANPR clocks the number plate as you enter the car park, then you enter your VRM into a pay machine on exit. I cannot touch type so I have to look at the keyboard not the screen when I type.
Luckily the car parks are managed by the hospital trust, not an unregulated parking scammer, and the keypads are linked to the ANPR cameras such that it will not accept a VRM unless it matches the one registered by the camera.
I typed in my VRM and hit enter, but got an error message saying the VRM had not been found. I then looked at the VRM on the screen and saw that it was significantly different to what I (thought) had been entered. 
I cancelled it and tried again, only to get the same message and gobbledygook numbers and letters on the screen. The third time I tried, I looked at the screen as I typed each letter, and noticed random characters appearing. I worked out that the cuff of my coat was either touching or nearly touching the touch screen as I moved across the keypad and generating random characters as a result.

In the end I had to pull my sleeves right back and carefully enter my VRM. It was then a match and allowed me to pay. On reaching the exit barrier the camera registered that a payment had been made matching my VRM and lifted the barrier.
I have not had need to visit that hospital again otherwise I would have taken a video of the process.

I wonder if the system you used had a similar fault. Either that or there was some other corruption/fault with their system.

The software exists to prevent a VRM being entered unless a vehicle with that VRM is actually in the car park. If parking scammers used it there would be few if any keying errors, but the scammers don't want that because it would cause a reduction in revenue.

D_P_Dance

The fact is than none of this technology is perfect.  ANPR is barred in council control car parks, terminals result in fubars, PBCLs malfunction.  I recently had problems with Netflix, NW on line banking, and paying my electricity bill and I am sure that judges experience the same problems.  

Coupon-mad

 My partner recently parked in a car park in Basildon, Essex, owned by Britannia. 

It's not owned by Britannia and the contract they have is likely to be in the wrong Britannia name (a point which wins in court and would have won it for you at POPLA, had you known, as seen in POPLA Decisions).  Please don't ask us to explain, just read the Britannia posts in the past year in POPLA Decisions - it is fully explained. 

Come back at court stage and win.

nosferatu1001

Keep the ticket forever
A judge is unlikely to believe that the machine wasnt at fault. IT goes beyond balance of prob. that the VRM would be entered SO incorrectly 
and the money was paid so the substantive portion o fhte contract was achieved. 

Coupon-mad

It sounds like there were some previously input figures stored from the last person, maybe.  Definite machine error, not driver error.