ABTA Members Ignoring their Refund Reccomendations

Butts

In light of ABTA recently endorsing the policy that  members should refund Package Holidaymakers in the event that they wish to cancel due to the FCO advising against all but essential travel to their destination even if the package is going ahead.

1. Have any of the operators not complying - On The Beach springs to mind , publicly stated why they are ignoring this advice ? Has anyone tried to use this argument with OTB or any other  ABTA members and if so what was their response ?

2. Have ABTA publicly castigated any of their members for lack of  observance of their directions, and stated what action will they take against defaulters - kick them out ?

Thrugelmir

Having available funds must be an issue. Secondly is the sheer scale of the issue. Simply not the resources to action as quickly as people would like. . 

Butts

And if they are refusing to refund on principle not citing finances as a reason ?

bagand96

Kicking them out is likely a red herring. Far more likely that these agents will just resign their membership.

Consumers have the option to complain to ABTA, or indeed take it one step further and take it to ABTA backed arbitration. That will be the true test of ABTA's convictions. 

Butts

bagand96 said:

Kicking them out is likely a red herring. Far more likely that these agents will just resign their membership.

Consumers have the option to complain to ABTA, or indeed take it one step further and take it to ABTA backed arbitration. That will be the true test of ABTA's convictions. 

Is ABTA arbitration voluntary for Companies to participate in and is their decision binding ?

bagand96

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

Kicking them out is likely a red herring. Far more likely that these agents will just resign their membership.

Consumers have the option to complain to ABTA, or indeed take it one step further and take it to ABTA backed arbitration. That will be the true test of ABTA's convictions. 

Is ABTA arbitration voluntary for Companies to participate in and is their decision binding ?

ABTA’s arbitration scheme is, I think, mandatory for ABTA members if a consumer wishes to bring a company into the process. The decision is binding and is an alternative to court proceedings. It does cost though, and the consumer would have to pay the registration fee, which they get back if they win. It is overseen by a third party, not ABTA themselves. 

All that said, before Arbitration, ABTA administer their own ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) scheme.  Details of the ADR and Arbitration https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/customer-support/resolving-disputes

Butts

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

Kicking them out is likely a red herring. Far more likely that these agents will just resign their membership.

Consumers have the option to complain to ABTA, or indeed take it one step further and take it to ABTA backed arbitration. That will be the true test of ABTA's convictions. 

Is ABTA arbitration voluntary for Companies to participate in and is their decision binding ?

ABTA’s arbitration scheme is, I think, mandatory for ABTA members if a consumer wishes to bring a company into the process. The decision is binding and is an alternative to court proceedings. It does cost though, and the consumer would have to pay the registration fee, which they get back if they win. It is overseen by a third party, not ABTA themselves. 

All that said, before Arbitration, ABTA administer their own ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) scheme.  Details of the ADR and Arbitration https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/customer-support/resolving-disputes

So surely anyone not having had success with a chargeback this is the way to go if a member is failing to refund a customer wishing to cancel in the event of an FCO warning coming into place but their holiday still scheduled ?

Sounds to simple , are OTB aware of this ?

Any idea of the timescales involved ? 

bagand96

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

Kicking them out is likely a red herring. Far more likely that these agents will just resign their membership.

Consumers have the option to complain to ABTA, or indeed take it one step further and take it to ABTA backed arbitration. That will be the true test of ABTA's convictions. 

Is ABTA arbitration voluntary for Companies to participate in and is their decision binding ?

ABTA’s arbitration scheme is, I think, mandatory for ABTA members if a consumer wishes to bring a company into the process. The decision is binding and is an alternative to court proceedings. It does cost though, and the consumer would have to pay the registration fee, which they get back if they win. It is overseen by a third party, not ABTA themselves. 

All that said, before Arbitration, ABTA administer their own ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) scheme.  Details of the ADR and Arbitration https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/customer-support/resolving-disputes

So surely anyone not having had success with a chargeback this is the way to go if a member is failing to refund a customer wishing to cancel in the event of an FCO warning coming into place but their holiday still scheduled ?

Sounds to simple , are OTB aware of this ?

Any idea of the timescales involved ? 

Details are on the link above. None of this will be a fast or simple solution. Firstly you have to reach a stalemate with the agent. Then, it would seem ABTA would want you to go through Stage 1 dispute resolution, their internal ADR, which they say can take 50 days. 

After that you’d have the option of arbitration, which costs £108.  Once you submit your case the respondent has 28 days to provide their defence after which the arbitrator will make a decision. Depending on the amount you’re claiming for, the small claims court might be cheaper, and you also wouldn’t have to go through ABTA ADR first.

- ABTA arbitration is against an agent for breach of contract and/or negligence. Given that ABTA have said agents should refund when FCO advice is not to travel then I guess that’s what you’d use 
- Small Claims Court you would be relying on a judge agreeing that the PALTR 2018 wording “exceptional circumstances .... affecting the performance of the package” applies to FCO advice not to travel. 

Both avenues require a customer to stump up hard cash up front, without knowing 100% if they’d win. Also note that the timescales quoted will be in normal times and likely affected by C-19 etc

Butts

Blimey, that makes Virgins refund process appear to be a speedy solution - and we know how long they are taking.
People just pray you qualify for a chargeback that can take less than a week !!!

bagand96

Butts said:

Blimey, that makes Virgins refund process appear to be a speedy solution - and we know how long they are taking.
People just pray you qualify for a chargeback that can take less than a week !!!

ABTA's processes, like small claims court, are not a refund process, they are dispute resolution. 

Alan_Bowen

ABTA wrote to all its members last week, after a Board Meeting, confirming the obligation to refund when there is FCO advice against all but essential travel and are already in discussion with two companies who are not complying. They appear to be enforcing their code of conduct as best they can but with staff working remotely and the need to hold a Code of Conduct meeting to reach a decision which I presume cannot take place at all at the moment, there may well be delays. The Committee has the power to fine, the highest during my time there was £108,000 against a single company or terminate membership, I am not sure what else could be expected.
As regards ABTA arbitration, It used to be relatively quick, you request a refund, they write to the member inviting them to review the request, if they say no, they then have to complete a Defence to the claim which is sent to you for final comment and then sent to an independent expert to make a decision, usually within 14 days of receiving it. That is a whole lot quicker than court proceedings, and even much quicker than Virgin Atlantic refunds recently but clearly in the current environment things can't be as quick as they would normally be