Online New Car Buying - ? Pre-Registered Car Con

sweetsand

daveyjp said:

The drive the deal case covers the situation where dealers were buying vehicles, selling them immediately as brand new, but not registering them to the new keeper for 3 months.

This could be an offence under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act as change of keeper should be registered immediately the vehicle is sold.

Thank you but it also states they can't sell them for 3 months 

DoaM

sweetsand said:

daveyjp said:

The drive the deal case covers the situation where dealers were buying vehicles, selling them immediately as brand new, but not registering them to the new keeper for 3 months.

This could be an offence under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act as change of keeper should be registered immediately the vehicle is sold.

Thank you but it also states they can't sell them for 3 months 

THAT'S THE CONTRACTUAL ELEMENT!

waamo

sweetsand said:

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

Grumpy_chap said:

That link is about manufacturer policies for pre registration card, not the law.  The legal advice is about having the car registered to the buyer straight away.

I cannot advise the OP, as it is their decision to a large part.  One thing to be aware of is whether the car will be 69 or 70 reg.

You are the third person that is wrong or the link is wrong. The link clearly states it is a 'criminal offence.' So is the link fake, wrong or what??

If it's a criminal offence there will be an act of parliament making it so. Can you show the legislation that makes it a crime please?

Clearly states in the link that it is and that is good enough for me. If you are not happy with that, that is your perogative.

So you can't show the legislation then? 

So you are saying the link is not real?

I'm not saying that at all I'm saying I would like to verify things for myself by reading the primary legislation. When stating something is a crime then accuracy is important as people may inadvertently break the law. I want to know what I can, and can't, do so need the legislation to check for myself.

Its also possible the article is complete bunkum.

You could be right what you say about the "article" but its been up for many years and these people sell a lot of brand new cars - therefore I will take it for real unless there is eveidence to the contarary.

The Sport sells a lot of papers. It doesn't make it right though.

sweetsand

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

Grumpy_chap said:

That link is about manufacturer policies for pre registration card, not the law.  The legal advice is about having the car registered to the buyer straight away.

I cannot advise the OP, as it is their decision to a large part.  One thing to be aware of is whether the car will be 69 or 70 reg.

You are the third person that is wrong or the link is wrong. The link clearly states it is a 'criminal offence.' So is the link fake, wrong or what??

If it's a criminal offence there will be an act of parliament making it so. Can you show the legislation that makes it a crime please?

Clearly states in the link that it is and that is good enough for me. If you are not happy with that, that is your perogative.

So you can't show the legislation then? 

So you are saying the link is not real?

I'm not saying that at all I'm saying I would like to verify things for myself by reading the primary legislation. When stating something is a crime then accuracy is important as people may inadvertently break the law. I want to know what I can, and can't, do so need the legislation to check for myself.

Its also possible the article is complete bunkum.

You could be right what you say about the "article" but its been up for many years and these people sell a lot of brand new cars - therefore I will take it for real unless there is eveidence to the contarary.

The Sport sells a lot of papers. It doesn't make it right though.

Never heard of the sports, which sports?
This link, my OH told me is mentioned in many moroting mags and even broadsheets and has been around for at 20 years I think and sold millions of pounds worth of new cars. We were going to use them about 3/4 years ago but we then used another broker that had not been around for as long but they were good too. This bit referrring to criminality has been up for years and you would have thought those selling pre-reg cars would have pulled them up if it was unlawful.

Anyway, I've provided the evidence and proved three people were wrong, very wrong as they have not given me any evidence having said I was wrong and worse. 

Grumpy_chap

sweetsand said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Please read the article you quote again.  The criminal offence is to have a car that is not registered to you at the time you collect it. 

 It is not a criminal offence just having a car on the dealer for one day then to sell as second hand.  That period is manufacturer policy.

I have re-read the bit a couple of times and it clearly states as far as I understand it that it is a criminal offence to sell you the car  before the 90 days and not register to you and not allowed to sell a pre-reg car for 90 days. This is what it implys and if that is not the case then it should be re-worded.

Quote"i) A dealer registers cars to themselves at the end of the month to hit the sales target set by the manufacturer, and then sells them on 90 days later. When you buy one, it will be immediately re-registered to you. If we ever offer you a pre-registered car it will be one of these, and there are no legal problems for you in buying one, though you should take note of the disadvantages listed below.

(ii) A broker arranges for you to purchase a car from a dealer, and the dealer delivers you the car. But instead of registering your car to you, the car is registered to a company that has nothing to do with you, so that the broker can claim a fleet bonus from the manufacturer. These cars are not usually re-registered to you for 3-6 months. Note that a car registered to you “Care of” an unrelated company is not registered to you, it is registered to the unrelated company. You should always avoid these as you could be committing a criminal offence, end up being prosecuted, get a criminal record and lose money which exceeds the value of the initial saving. We never supply cars using this practice.

WHY?"

End of quote

You are showing your absolute ignorance and general inability to read and understand the English language. 

The link (which you have now quoted) is clear at numbered item (ii) that the criminal offence is if you buy a car and the car is not registered in your name as it is required to be.  Numbered item (i) is a separate case, where the car is registered to the dealer and then sold on after 3 months (as per a contractual agreement).  Breach of the contractual agreement is not illegal, but the manufacturer may have a contractual remedy against the dealer.

Anyone can buy anything and sell it again immediately should they so choose.  The foolishness of what you are saying would mean that is not permitted.  For an example, if I go out an buy a Mercedes S-Class on Tuesday morning but take it home and realise that I cannot get in five 6 foot gentlemen plus a 6 foot table, it would be entirely legal for me to go out in the afternoon and sell the S-Class to buy a Ssangyong Musso. 

The only restriction on the Mercedes dealer registering the car in the morning and then selling in the afternoon is a contractual agreement between the dealer and Mercedes.  That does not make it illegal.

Please learn to understand simple basic English.

Mercdriver

sweetsand said:

Mercdriver said:

sweetsand said:

Hi
If true then it's new rulings.
We always buy our brand new cars online well my OH does. Our understanding of pre-reg is or was that a pre-reg car cannot be legally sold for about 3 months as we looked into this as we either wanted a brand new car ie us the first owners or a hefty discount for pre-reg and MB told us pre-rg had to be so for 3 months and same a Land Rover.

There is no criminality in selling a car registered the hour before.  No law that states there has to be 3 months.  There are contractual negotiations and those might normally preclude selling a car that the dealership has bought in order to get bonuses for hitting a sales target.  

Again, I have to suggest that the most important thing about knowledge is understanding what you do not yet know.  

It was when we bought our latest new car. Let me look it up and see if you are completely wrong or the law has changed.
As expected, you are wrong again. Read the link below from a broker that is a trsuted broker and around for a good 20 years plus.
https://www.drivethedeal.com/Pre-Registered-Cars.aspx

So you are wrong again

Nice post posting edit.  That's against the rules of the site.  Read my post again.  I asked for evidence of criminality based on an Act of Parliament or legal instrument by the Department of Transport, which is a law enacted by the Secretary of State by-passing parliament.  You have given an incomplete set of advice from a commercial broker which doesn't even address this issue.  It is NOT illegal for a car to be sold within the 3 month period that MIGHT be attached to a contract.  If a dealer breaks the rule they may well be sued by the manufacturer for breach of contract but that would be a civil case, not a criminal one.  

You post so much and many might believe that you add so little, you risk having no credibility at all.  All very well having thousands of posts but it means nothing if people regard your posts as not being useful.  

molerat

Looks like my car dealer will be going to prison then - my current pre-reg was 2 weeks old when registered to me   But that was a genuine pre reg not a dodgy dealer making numbers up - across the country they had about 100 various specs of the same model.  The previous one was 7 weeks old but it had been on sale for about a month before I bought it.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/43C

I don't believe that law really applies to a dodgy pre-reg. DTD is scaremongering why you should buy a new car from them rather than a pre reg from someone else. It is more about not registering a vehicle or falsely registering to avoid being traced - I am sure the dealership would pass on details pretty quickly in the same way as Motability or any lease co would.  It would be interesting though if involved in an accident as the insurer would likely walk away and void the policy.

Pre reg = no less than 25% off list price or walk away - my last 2 were around 31-34% off list.

Mercdriver

sweetsand said:

waamo said:

sweetsand said:

Grumpy_chap said:

That link is about manufacturer policies for pre registration card, not the law.  The legal advice is about having the car registered to the buyer straight away.

I cannot advise the OP, as it is their decision to a large part.  One thing to be aware of is whether the car will be 69 or 70 reg.

You are the third person that is wrong or the link is wrong. The link clearly states it is a 'criminal offence.' So is the link fake, wrong or what??

If it's a criminal offence there will be an act of parliament making it so. Can you show the legislation that makes it a crime please?

Clearly states in the link that it is and that is good enough for me. If you are not happy with that, that is your perogative.

I suggest you do not take legal advice from car brokers.  They will not be legally responsible for errors made. They also have a vested interest in you following them and buying through them.  
As stated further up it would be fraudulent for a dealer to pretend the car was brand new and register the car to the purchaser later on.  

sweetsand

molerat said:

Looks like my car dealer will be going to prison then - my current pre-reg was 2 weeks old when registered to me   But that was a genuine pre reg not a dodgy dealer making numbers up - across the country they had about 100 various specs of the same model.  The previous one was 7 weeks old but it had been on sale for about a month before I bought it.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/43C

I don't believe that law really applies to a dodgy pre-reg. DTD is scaremongering why you should buy a new car from them rather than a pre reg from someone else. It is more about not registering a vehicle or falsely registering to avoid being traced - I am sure the dealership would pass on details pretty quickly in the same way as Motability or any lease co would.  It would be interesting though if involved in an accident as the insurer would likely walk away and void the policy.

Pre reg = no less than 25% off list price or walk away - my last 2 were around 31-34% off list.

Thank you. As I said previously, read my posts, this dealer has been up and going for 20 years poss plus that and has good reivews. As i said before, if the link contains info that is wrong, I'm sure other dealers that specilze in pre reg cars would pull them up. for that reason it is my sincere beleife that the information is genuine and accurate.

waamo

sweetsand said:

molerat said:

Looks like my car dealer will be going to prison then - my current pre-reg was 2 weeks old when registered to me   But that was a genuine pre reg not a dodgy dealer making numbers up - across the country they had about 100 various specs of the same model.  The previous one was 7 weeks old but it had been on sale for about a month before I bought it.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/43C

I don't believe that law really applies to a dodgy pre-reg. DTD is scaremongering why you should buy a new car from them rather than a pre reg from someone else. It is more about not registering a vehicle or falsely registering to avoid being traced - I am sure the dealership would pass on details pretty quickly in the same way as Motability or any lease co would.  It would be interesting though if involved in an accident as the insurer would likely walk away and void the policy.

Pre reg = no less than 25% off list price or walk away - my last 2 were around 31-34% off list.

Thank you. As I said previously, read my posts, this dealer has been up and going for 20 years poss plus that and has good reivews. As i said before, if the link contains info that is wrong, I'm sure other dealers that specilze in pre reg cars would pull them up. for that reason it is my sincere beleife that the information is genuine and accurate.

If you believe it to be correct then show one example of somebody being prosecuted for it. Just one that's all it needs.