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Shared freehold sinking fund.

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  • I think you have the right to join as a director if you wish, but be prepared for whoever is doing the work now to say 'go on then you can take over!'.
    Taking a step back, do you have any concerns over how things are being run? You say you overpaid so presumably you can just skip the next 3 months payments to bring things back in line.
    Regardless of that, you have the right to see all accounts, receipts etc., as a leaseholder, and the person running things now shouldn't take any of that personally, they should be doing it as a matter of course.
    As for the leashold advisory service..........chocolate teapots come to mind.
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,998 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 24 August 2020 at 1:12PM
    Famo said:

    I wondering who governs potential mismanagement of these arrangements ?

    As I suggested before, it all depends on the basis on which you paid the money.

      • Did you pay it as a leaseholder to the (5 joint) freeholders?
      • Or did you pay it as a joint freeholder, as part of an agreement between the 5 joint freeholders?


    If it's option 1, you have legislation to protect you, and you can even take a dispute to a tribunal.

    If it's option 2 and you had a clear written agreement, refer to that agreement (and you might be able to make a court claim, if somebody breaches the agreement.)

    If it's option 2 and you didn't have a clear agreement - it's a bit like when 5 of you go to a restaurant and each put £50 in the kitty - and you end up arguing about who had starters, who had cocktails, how much tip to leave, how the change should be divided etc.  If you don't trust the others to be fair and reasonable, don't put any money in the kitty in the first place.
  • cattie
    cattie Posts: 8,841 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    If no service/maintenance charged, how is the building insured? I doubt you'd get a mortgage on a flat with no insurance policy in place so when you bought there must have been one in existence, so how is the cost of this paid each year between each of the flat owners?
    The bigger the bargain, the better I feel.

    I should mention that there's only one of me, don't confuse me with others of the same name.
  • AskAsk
    AskAsk Posts: 3,048 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic
    Famo said:
    The freehold comprises a Ltd company of which among the other 4 owners 2 are directors and 1 secretary.
    I will need to look at the details in my lease. I do know that upon purchase the original agreed amount to contribute to the sinking fund was £60 pounds but all the owners agreed it should be  £100. I do know that we've agreed works to other flats in that time and made a one off payment in addition to the standard contribution of £1200 to bolster the fund and repair the roof. Ironically one of the directors flooded my living room after having work done to their boiler over a year ago and had been very unhelpful in repairing the damage.
    It looks like I need a good read of the lease to determine if I have statutory protection.
    The "Sinking" fund has been in place since I purchased as the other owners have all been here in excess of 20 years or so.
    Thanks for all your feedback.
    we had a very similar situation, with a block of 4 flats.  the company bank accounts was administered by one owner and she never sent the bank account to anyone.  we asked to see it one year and she didn't reply.  it tool several requests over a couple of months before she sent it to me.  it looked fine and she wasn't taking money out of it for her own use, as she was the sole account holder!

    when we sold the flat last year, it came to light that the way it was managed by the owners was not a good idea and it would have been better to employ an independent management company to manage it.

    we didn't have a sinking fund, so money for repairs were just paid ad hoc.  that was just a disaster waiting to happen as when you got major works bill, the owners would not be able to get the cash.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    cattie said:
    If no service/maintenance charged, how is the building insured? I doubt you'd get a mortgage on a flat with no insurance policy in place so when you bought there must have been one in existence, so how is the cost of this paid each year between each of the flat owners?
    Of course it IS being charged - and it's being paid out of this £100/flat/month, with the remainder going into the "sinking fund" savings account for the next bill...

    It's a perfectly legit arrangement. All that's missing is the accounts.
  • Yes it sounds more like a shared maintenance arrangement, with an agreed £100 a month going into an account to pay for insurance and any works as they arise. If there isn't enough to cover a larger job you will each make up the balance.
    The key thing with such arrangements is to ensure that regular maintenance is still being carried out and not to let small jobs build up until you suddenly have a long and expensive list to tackle.
  • Famo
    Famo Posts: 21 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts
    Ah yes the sinking fund is a bit of a catch all term as that is the sole pool of money from which all works including insurance is taken from. I actually theoretically prefer this system as an ad hoc approach can catch us all out unless we are religious savers.

    There has been no meeting of which I'm aware although in the last 3 months a WhatsApp group has been established. I have seen minutes from previous meetings from the conveyancing pack when I brought the flat. As I mentioned roof repairs were agreed previously and 3 months after purchase I contributed an additional  £1200 to fulfil this.

    I have no gripe with those who carry out works to be compensated. I even offered money for the time one of the directors took to gather the previous 5 year's statements.

    I am also wondering if there is some other power dynamics taking place as who appears to be the main director is a senior police officer. And I think may find it strange to be asked to account.

    I personally don't see an issue as even in work roles I've had in the past where I've had to account and probably evidence I've always followed procedure and been happy with the piece of mind that brings. This is not an issue of trust.

    I also don't particularly want to be a director but do expect to see what's happened over the the year. Funnily enough there were a few queries I had but nothing too alarming from the statements I looked through. I also rectified the 3 months overpaid.

    The insurance is taken out by the Secretary yearly and we are notified of the cost although I've never seen a certificate. ( Which could come into play as I still have flood damage unresolved from upstairs from nearly a year ago).

    The owner beneath me seems quite distant from the other owners and has rented his flat since I've been there. Although he did inform me that any paint work carried out to the flats internally and externally were covered under the lease. I had my flat renovated 2 years ago and nobody informed me of this. 

  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,998 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 25 August 2020 at 1:22PM

    So you're essentially saying that your fellow leaseholders are "good people" and you trust them.

    So you're happy to hand over £1,200 a year with no legal protection or recourse, because you trust them to spend it wisely and honestly.

    That's absolutely fine. As you say, a Senior Police Officer would probably not do anything dishonourable, and would probably take steps to ensure that others around him/her don't do anything dishonourable either.

    (I guess that you're also trusting the Senior Police Officer and others to make reasonable decisions about buildings insurance, building maintenance and repairs etc - which are areas they may not be experts in - but again you're free to trust them to do that.)
  • Famo
    Famo Posts: 21 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts
    eddddy said:

    So you're essentially saying that your fellow leaseholders are "good people" and you trust them.

    So you're happy to hand over £1,200 a year with no legal protection or recourse, because you trust them to spend it wisely and honestly.

    That's absolutely fine. As you say, a Senior Police Officer would probably not do anything dishonourable, and would probably take steps to ensure that others around him/her don't do anything dishonourable either.

    (I guess that you're also trusting the Senior Police Officer and others to make reasonable decisions about buildings insurance, building maintenance and repairs etc - which are areas they may not be experts in - but again you're free to trust them to do that.)
    I'm guessing there's a lot of tongue in cheek in your assumptions.
    Being "Good" or otherwise is a red herring. Process and accountability/stroke piece of mind is paramount. Yes I might have been naive but nevertheless I am seeking clarification and welcome former contributions from MSE forum members.
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,998 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Famo said:

    I'm guessing there's a lot of tongue in cheek in your assumptions.
    Being "Good" or otherwise is a red herring. Process and accountability/stroke piece of mind is paramount. Yes I might have been naive but nevertheless I am seeking clarification and welcome former contributions from MSE forum members.

    No - no tongue in cheek.  Just a straight talking description of your situation, based on what you've posted.

    Perhaps using a bit of "shock tactics" to highlight the risks you're taking - because based on what you've said, in your current situation, there is no legal accountability or legal process (only trust).
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