Help with a court papers against HX Car Park Management

Katieprice385

Well to tell the truth Red I do not really have a defence as if I was in the wrong which I am not saying I was, If i had received the Originally letters I would have appealed at the time and if i was found in fault I would have paid as I would not want a CCJ against my name.
I have a few defenses i could use but it is just proving them now as the bowling place i went to visit shut down a few years back.
1: They state I over stayed I had assumed I had paid for 3hrs and not 2 hrs, i requested all my documents they hold on me and they have not shown how long I over stayed and that I had purchased a ticket at the time
2: My partner had slipped on the wet floor they had just washed in the bowling place and never placed a wet floor sign, so we was trying to deal with that filling out a form, but i can not obtain this now as the place has been shut down, i can get a statement from my partner but i dont think they will take this into consideration
3: I would have paid a small fine of £60 if they proved i had overstayed my welcome
How does it stand if they no longer manage the car park, can they still chase the old debt as im assuming they would not pay it over to the client

Fruitcake

There are plenty of things to consider in a defence.

Not the landowner
No standing (no valid contract) to issue a PCN/court claim
Inadequate signage
PoFA failures
ATA CoP failures
Frustration of contract (dealing with an occupant of the car who had a fall). A statement from both of you stating this would be eye witness evidence.
Abuse of process if they add fake amounts on top of the original charge

Redx

They need to show they had a landowner contract and authority at the time , good signage , a valid case

It's irrelevant if they no longer manage it , but none of that matters for next week's set aside hearing

You are like many others on here , you have paid a set aside fee without thinking it through , like this person

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6144802/ccj-parking-fine-help#latest

You have paid for a contested set aside and are supposed to convince a judge that you have a prospect of winning it

By your last post , if a judge heard that they would not grant a set aside , they are not interested in any jackanory stories or what if's

A set aside with consent should have been sought , for £100 , if your story above is the case , like in this thread. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6181900/fighting-a-ukcpm-ccj-help/p2

I don't think you understand the difference or have thought it through , be careful what you wish for

We know what you are trying to achieve , but judges don't like credit cleansing just for the sake of it

I am no wiser why you didn't pay for a set aside with consent if you don't have a defence , but we disagree with you because as fruitcake says , everyone has a defence , your job now is to convince a judge of that due to the path you have taken by paying for the I have a defence route

That other thread I linked has a person who is like you , doesn't know what they have set in motion , despite us trying to tell them

So I repeat , you are not defending a case next week , you are asking a judge to grant a set aside in order for you to fight the original court case, same as you would have if the court case paperwork had arrived at the correct address

The reason that the PCN didn't is a fault of your own making in not updating the V5C which is a legal requirement for a keeper , so HX has no fault by using the registered address of the keeper for the PCN. A judge could easily tell you this , that you were at fault due to not updating it

The claimant has 6 years to enforce an alleged debt in England and Wales , in your case the original PCN , the invoice. Everyone in England and Wales has had that legal right since 1973 , so if someone owes you money from 5 years ago you can take them to small claims court and try to get a judge to enforce it with a CCJ. That is what HX did with you

Coupon-mad

Hang on, this is a set aside hearing and the OP appears to have supplied no evidence to the court that she moved or was 'there to be found' on the electoral roll, or on social media, etc.

So that needs to be addressed by email to the court tomorrow.    Copy in Gladstones as well.  Put in the subject line:

 URGENT WITNESS STATEMENT & EVIDENCE FOR TELEPHONE HEARING TO SET ASIDE CLAIM NUMBER XXXXXXXX - HEARING DATE XX/X/2020 TIME OF HEARING XXam

Send a witness statement in support of your application, appending evidence of when you moved, and that you did all you thought was needed, told your bank, registered for Council Tax and the voter's roll, etc. and changed your driving licence and thought that the DVLA operated a 'tell us once' service (IMHO they darn well should and people need to say that in the public consultation of the new CoP when it's published)...

Also append the template defence with some details added as it explains in the template defence thread.  

At the hearing AT THE END, if the CCJ is set aside, ask for your costs to be refunded by the parking firm because they failed to take any reasonable steps to trace you before issuing a claim and haven't bothered to attend the hearing so you believe their conduct has been unreasonable throughout.

DO NOT SAY YOU HAVE NO DEFENCE. YOU DO.

DO NOT SAY THE REASON FOR YOUR APPLICATION IS TO REMOVE THE CCJ AND THAT'S ALL.  

The reason for your application is that the PPC failed to trace you and you are seeking to set aside the CCJ so that you can DEFEND IT.

Redx

I couldn't have put it any better , a great précis of where the OP is up to , what to do and why

The OP has chosen the dispute resolution path of a contested set aside and paid for it , so it's important to follow the path laid down by coupon mad above , to submit what she said to the court and to Gladstone's ASAP , today , plus to ask for the £255 charge if successful before putting down the phone next week !!

If the set aside is granted , the OP should prepare to fight the case and if she loses to pay the judgment within one month , in full , to avoid being in the CCJ predicament once more

To reiterate what coupon mad said , you do not even hint that you want your credit rating restored , even if you do , even if it's why you have paid for a set aside. The judge may well refuse the application if they believe that this is the reason for the application by the OP. A

A set aside with consent for £100 is the method for that type of reasoning.

This is why you have to know which application you are doing , and why , putting the idea of credit cleansing into the correct category or to the back of your mind

So get what she said done , TODAY !!!!!

Katieprice385

Redx said:

They need to show they had a landowner contract and authority at the time , good signage , a valid case

It's irrelevant if they no longer manage it , but none of that matters for next week's set aside hearing

You are like many others on here , you have paid a set aside fee without thinking it through , like this person

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6144802/ccj-parking-fine-help#latest

You have paid for a contested set aside and are supposed to convince a judge that you have a prospect of winning it

By your last post , if a judge heard that they would not grant a set aside , they are not interested in any jackanory stories or what if's

A set aside with consent should have been sought , for £100 , if your story above is the case , like in this thread. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6181900/fighting-a-ukcpm-ccj-help/p2

I don't think you understand the difference or have thought it through , be careful what you wish for

We know what you are trying to achieve , but judges don't like credit cleansing just for the sake of it

I am no wiser why you didn't pay for a set aside with consent if you don't have a defence , but we disagree with you because as fruitcake says , everyone has a defence , your job now is to convince a judge of that due to the path you have taken by paying for the I have a defence route

That other thread I linked has a person who is like you , doesn't know what they have set in motion , despite us trying to tell them

So I repeat , you are not defending a case next week , you are asking a judge to grant a set aside in order for you to fight the original court case, same as you would have if the court case paperwork had arrived at the correct address

The reason that the PCN didn't is a fault of your own making in not updating the V5C which is a legal requirement for a keeper , so HX has no fault by using the registered address of the keeper for the PCN. A judge could easily tell you this , that you were at fault due to not updating it

The claimant has 6 years to enforce an alleged debt in England and Wales , in your case the original PCN , the invoice. Everyone in England and Wales has had that legal right since 1973 , so if someone owes you money from 5 years ago you can take them to small claims court and try to get a judge to enforce it with a CCJ. That is what HX did with you

Thank you Red, I have never heard of the Contested, I have only ever been told I had to do a N2 form.
I am still going through as many threads as i can to try and build a defence for after next weeks hearing

Katieprice385

Coupon-mad said:

Hang on, this is a set aside hearing and the OP appears to have supplied no evidence to the court that she moved or was 'there to be found' on the electoral roll, or on social media, etc.

So that needs to be addressed by email to the court tomorrow.    Copy in Gladstones as well.  Put in the subject line:

 URGENT WITNESS STATEMENT & EVIDENCE FOR TELEPHONE HEARING TO SET ASIDE CLAIM NUMBER XXXXXXXX - HEARING DATE XX/X/2020 TIME OF HEARING XXam

Send a witness statement in support of your application, appending evidence of when you moved, and that you did all you thought was needed, told your bank, registered for Council Tax and the voter's roll, etc. and changed your driving licence and thought that the DVLA operated a 'tell us once' service (IMHO they darn well should and people need to say that in the public consultation of the new CoP when it's published)...

Also append the template defence with some details added as it explains in the template defence thread.  

At the hearing AT THE END, if the CCJ is set aside, ask for your costs to be refunded by the parking firm because they failed to take any reasonable steps to trace you before issuing a claim and haven't bothered to attend the hearing so you believe their conduct has been unreasonable throughout.

DO NOT SAY YOU HAVE NO DEFENCE. YOU DO.

DO NOT SAY THE REASON FOR YOUR APPLICATION IS TO REMOVE THE CCJ AND THAT'S ALL.  

The reason for your application is that the PPC failed to trace you and you are seeking to set aside the CCJ so that you can DEFEND IT.

Thank you, i will get this typed up and sent today to them

Redx

You need to read and do what coupon mad said and send to Court and to Gladstone's today

You cannot turn up with it next week , or do it afterwards , because you are doing things in reverse , so do it TODAY !! You cannot leave it until AFTER next week's hearing , it needs emailing today , ASAP

Yes you fill the form in , but there are 2 fees , £100 and £255 , you chose the latter , so you chose to defend the case , as coupon mad says , so you have to show that you are defending it , by submitting your evidence for the set aside plus submitting your defence as well , for the court case later regarding the PCN

It's important that you understand the process and what is expected from you , because if it's not granted next week you will have wasted your £255 plus the current CCJ will remain !! Not what you want

Get a grip and do what coupon mad said , and do not tell the judge that you applied because of your credit rating , whereas your actual indignation at their behaviour and not tracing you first before getting a default CCJ is why you want a set aside , that you are willing to defend the original case and let another judge decide the outcome

Ps , when you get time , read this thread below to see how you could have tried the £100 with consent approach , but because you didn't do so your chosen path is different

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6181900/fighting-a-ukcpm-ccj-help/p1

If ukcpm don't play ball on that one , I would think the thread poster will go for the £255 contested application instead , meaning that they would then follow your chosen path

Read this thread below including the reply by Henrik to see what a judge expects in order to grant a set aside, it agrees with what coupon mad told you earlier

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6182737/surprise-ccj-flora-st-sheffield-restricted-area-vcs-elms-legal#latest

Katieprice385

I received an email yesterday to state my case will not be heard today as they have no judges available, Until I get a new hearing what should I be getting in the meantime.
I have gained all the details HX Car Park hold on me, and this does not include anything that I had paid for parking. I have asked Gladstone to send me all the data they have on me, and should have this back in 2 weeks.
Would it help if i had anything from the Landowner to state they do not wish for HX to recover any debt for them

Redx

if you believe they are withholding data then reply and insist on receiving it , PDT records etc with other VRM details partially redacted , if applicable

yes , its ALWAYS preferable to get a WS from the landowner, you should not even need to ask