Surprise CCJ - Flora St Sheffield Restricted Area - VCS / Elms Legal

Supraman15

First of all I'd like to thank coupon-mad for the NEWBIE Thread and everyone else who has contributed to questions relating to similar circumstances, and also apologise in advance if I ask any questions that have already been answered on other threads, I'm just very eager to get my N244 form sent ASAP as that is very favourable with the Courts it seems?
So, yesterday I received a notification from Clearscore that my new credit report has been added - only to discover that it has plummeted due to a CCJ being added (dated 07/08/2020)
After calling the CCBC and asking them to E-mail over the details I have discovered that this relates to an alleged offence at Flora St retail park in December 2016!

I will try and break this into 2 sections as I understand the defence of the CCJ and the defence of the supposed offence will be separate?

To ask for the CCJ  to be set aside I will be highlighting the fact that the court order was served to the wrong address and so I had no opportunity to defend the claim.
I was the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the original PCN/NTK (which I ignored) and the address (Oldham) was correct until January 2018 when I moved to Sheffield temporarily but did not declare to DVLA. However, this vehicle was written off (a particularly bad winter caused another vehicle to slide into my parked car) and I have the receipt of transfer to Copart dated March 2018. A new vehicle was purchased and registered to my new permanent address in Manchester also in March 2018.
I applied to be added on to the Manchester electoral register in August 2018 and i'm still on it to this day.

To defend the PCN:
I vaguely recall the day I came out of the shops to see a parking attendant clamber out of a little 'smart' car and start taking photos of my car, and others which were parked in an unmarked area, but nothing was left on the windscreen.
I also vaguely recall receiving a 'PCN' through the post (Parking charge rather than penalty charge) but I probably assumed it wasn't enforceable as it was a cowboy outfit and not the council, so ignored it.
Looking around on here and on other forums it has become clear that VCS use this particular location as a honey trap and the Sheffield courts are fully aware of this; cases have been thrown out during a very short hearing in which the judge has agreed that the area in question is not marked at all to indicate that it is in fact a restricted area. The signage which claims that you enter a contract by entering the private land clearly states that you must not park on restricted areas marked by cross hatch markings, entrances/exits or walkways. (none of which apply in this case)

Questions
1) Is it reasonable to assume that they have had 2 years to trace me to my Manchester address and so the CCJ should be set aside based on this?
2) Should I send off a SAR before sending the N244 so that I have all the relevant dates for when VCS/Elms sent their correspondence?
3) Should my WS that accompanies the N244 only include the defence about the wrong address or also include the defence about the PCN being false?

Thank you in advance

Redx

1) correct , it's been a requirement for a couple of years now

2) yes , email the SAR to the DPO at the PPC today , with proof of I D such as 2 recent redacted utility bills

3) read what coupon mad wrote early this morning in the Katie price thread about CCJ,s


I think you may need to pay the CCJ under protest and also apply for a set aside to include all your monies back

Supraman15

Thanks Redx
Did you mean pay the set aside fee under protest rather than pay the CCJ?
I tried searching for katie price on here but couldn't see anything relevant to CCJs, do you have a link please?
I did try to search for Coupon-Mad 's recent activity but I think it must be private

Redx

No , I meant paying the CCJ amount to the claimant under protest , to avoid it being on your credit rating because you have a month to pay it from it's inception date , then you claim it back , plus your £255 set aside fee etc too , but wait for other opinions on this

The Katie price thread is on page 2 near the top ,see this link and read that advice too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6182248/help-with-a-court-papers-against-hx-car-park-management#latest

Coupon-mad

Please read lots of posts by @henrik777 to understand.  Redx is mulling over whether you could pay the sum to clear the CCJ as well as set it aside.  Pretty sure @henrik777 thinks you can but most people don't pay it - AND CERTAINLY DO NOT PAY IT AS PART OF A SET ASIDE 'WITH CONSENT' BECAUSE THEN YOU'D GET NO HEARING AND NO MONEY BACK!

Supraman15

Thank you, both

I will send the SAR to VCS today and also do some more reading on Henrik's posts

henrik777

1) Is it reasonable to assume that they have had 2 years to trace me to my Manchester address and so the CCJ should be set aside based on this?

Depends.

For a mandatory set aside, definitely not. The claimant needs a "reason to believe" the address is no longer one that is resided at. I would argue a 2 year gap, with no reply, is reason enough. Now i'm not sure anyone has specifically won on this point but since people started arguing it significantly more people are get the set aside costs awarded at the hearing.

This may be that the argument is too complex to be presented well or too complicated for the judges, a bit of both or Judges thinking i've made up my mind but i'll do it a simpler way.

For a discretionary set aside it should be.

2) Should I send off a SAR before sending the N244 so that I have all the relevant dates for when VCS/Elms sent their correspondence?

SAR is a good idea but time is of the essence so if you've literally just found out about it you can wait a bit but days/weeks, not a month or months.

3) Should my WS that accompanies the N244 only include the defence about the wrong address or also include the defence about the PCN being false?

For a discretionary set aside 

(a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim; or

(b) it appears to the court that there is some other good reason why –

(i) the judgment should be set aside or varied; or

(ii) the defendant should be allowed to defend the claim.

So you can tell them why you have a good reason or have a real prospect or you can provide a draft defence. I'd go with a draft myself.

Supraman15

Thanks henrik777!
I will post my WS and Draft Defence tomorrow.
Just for some more context, this is the only info that was received from CCBC.
I assume this would have been the particulars of claim on the NTK...

THE CLAIM IS FOR A BREACH OF CONTRACT FOR BREACHING THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET ON PRIVATE LAND. THE DEFENDANT'S VEHICLE, [XXXXXXX], WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE FLORA STREET RETAIL PARK ON THE XX/12/2016 IN BREACH OF THE ADVERTISED TERMS AND CONDITIONS; NAMELY 81) PARKED IN A RESTRICTED / PROHIBITED AREA AT ALL MATERIAL TIMES THE DEFENDANT WAS THE REGISTERED KEEPER AND/OR DRIVER. THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS UPON ENTERING PRIVATE LAND WERE CLEARLY DISPLAYED AT THE ENTRANCE AND INPROMINENT LOCATIONS. THE SIGN WAS THE OFFER AND THE ACT OF ENTERING PRIVATE LAND WAS THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE OFFER HEREBY ENTERING INTO A CONTRACT BY CONDUCT. THE SIGNS SPECIFICALLYDETAIL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE TO COMPLY, NAMELY A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE WILL BE ISSUED, AND THEDEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO SETTLE THE OUTSTANDING LIABILITY. THE CLAIMANT SEEKS THERECOVERY OF THE PARKING CHARGE NOTICE, CONTRACTUAL COSTS AND INTEREST.

 

Given the limited info, would this point of defence still stand?

The Particulars of Claim refer to ‘A Breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. [DATE]. However, they do not state the basis of any purported liability for these charges, in that they do not state what the terms of parking were, or in what way they are alleged to have been breached. In addition, the particulars state 'The Defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle' which indicates that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5.

nosferatu1001

Did you check for yourself?
you have to understand the defence , not us. 

Coupon-mad

You have even more than that:

The Particulars of Claim refer to ‘A Breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. [DATE].  However, they do not state the basis of any purported liability for these charges, in that they do not state whether the Defendant is being pursued under the POFA 2012 as the registered keeper (they use template wording 'keeper and/or driver' yet the law and liability chain and defence needed for those polar opposite positions, would be entirely different).  The Particulars also fail to explain the locus standi of the Claimant, who are not the landowner yet also fail to state why they, as a mere agent (if indeed they are) of a landowner principal, are bringing this claim.  Further, this is a money-claim and the Particulars state no sum of money, nor even break the total claim down, nor even state the sum of the alleged parking charge.

All of the above prejudices the Defendant's ability to defend the vague allegations and indicates that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5.

Supraman15

Thanks again Coupon-Mad
Forgive me for being Naive in these matters, but I assume that the claim amount was separate to this body of text in some sort of table at the end of the claim form. Eg:

Amount claimed £160
Court fee £25
Legal Representative's costs £50
Total £235

Are you saying that these figures also need to be written in the main body of text in order to form a legitimate claim?