Vaillant 'fixed price repair' - boiler deemed beyond economical repair.

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi all.

Our GlowWorm combi developed a water leak which I traced to a cracked RH 'hydroblock'. Called a local GasSafe and he suggested going for a £285 Vaillant fixed-price repair as it would represent decent value for the job; he'd have charged £200-300 himself, but other issues could raise themselves during the repair, he said. So I did.

Yes, it's an 'old' combi at 15 years old, but is an efficient condensing type and one which has had most of its major parts replaced over the past few years under a warranty we had - the failed component is one of the few original parts remaining.

The guy came out, diagnosed the faulty part and then said he'd also have to replace every other part that could possibly also be on the verge of being faulty - their policy is to leave every boiler in a condition that their 3-month warranty is effectively never called upon. "Hmm, some water has sprayed on to the pump - that'll need replacing". I pointed out that it was a recent new pump and was clearly working perfectly, but I thought to myself 'What the 'ell - if he wants to fit a new one, that's fine by me, pal...'. He also added a new Plate-to-Plate exchanger to his list as "it would almost certainly need replacing on a boiler this old". I thought this was getting a bit ridiculous, but again shrugged and thought 'fine by me if he wants to do this...'.

He finished by saying he'd have to tally it all up and see if the job was viable, and that he might have to knock the P2P exchanger off to bring it under the threshold if not. Again, fine by me.

He didn't have the actual faulty part in his van so departed saying he'd call me. This he did, only to say it was not a cost-effective repair so couldn't do the job - they'd refund the charge. I asked him to reconsider, leaving out parts that were clearly not required such as the pump and P2P (the pump in particular is a costly piece), but he said his hands were tied and it was company policy to replace any potentially dodgy part.

I've just had my refund - minus £95 call-out fee. 

Ok, I do get it that it's an 'old' boiler, but over the past 6 years it's had a new MAIN exchanger (many £100's), pump (ditto), PCB (ditto), P2P exchanger, and various wee parts like the filling tap replaced, mostly - thankfully - via an extended warranty. Although '15 years old', it's more like Trigger's broom with only a few minor components still being original, the failed Hydroblock being one. 

The cost of replacing the Hydroblock should have been comfortably covered by the £285 repair cost, and it's only their 'policy' that has made the total cost 'deemed beyond economical repair'. Significantly, I think, I can find no mention of this 'policy' in their T&Cs. My other argument will be that with a new main exch, pump, P2P, PCB etc, the boiler is more like a 6-year old model at most... :-)

I intend to take them on to get my £95 refunded. What are my chances, folks?! 

ComicGeek

Was it Vaillant themselves who came out or a different company? Don't see how they can refuse to do the fixed price repair and still charge for a call out fee.

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Comic. It was Vaillant themselves.

They do have the right to refuse the repair if they deem the boiler to be 'beyond economical repair', and I have no issue with that condition provided the figures used are justifiable. They also have the right - in their T&Cs - to charge this abortive call-out fee.

My issue is that it's too blunt a tool; 80% of my boiler is actually less than around 6 years old. The list of additional parts he was going to replace was also, I thought, unnecessary as they were clearly unaffected by the leak and would have added hugely to the overall cost (the pump costs at least as much as the faulty hydroblock). 

A combination of these two factors deemed it BER. I can understand their point of view and in most cases it will probably be 'fair enough'. But I believe that in this case they got their sums wrong.

Anyhoo, complaint sent and I'll report back. 

timeism0ney

@Jeepers_Creepers How did you spot the leak? 

Jeepers_Creepers

Went to hoover the room and found a puddle... It was a crack in the RH Hydroblock. Bought a new one for £65, took a deep breath, followed the 'replacing parts' instructions to a T, and sorted it without much difficulty - really quite therapeutic. It also needed a new flow switch - £15 new on eBay - as its electrical plug had been affected by the water. 

All working fine. My boiler is now - oooh - around 90% 'newish'... :-(

michaels

I bet they have a model where the sub contractor repairer is responsible for any future repairs so is incentivised to bump up the job to a point where they just pocket the call out fee and leave.

Jeepers_Creepers

michaels said:

I bet they have a model where the sub contractor repairer is responsible for any future repairs so is incentivised to bump up the job to a point where they just pocket the call out fee and leave.

I have to say I was surprised at the list of parts he was planning to replace, but I think the actual engineer was totally sincere. He also said that he'd try and include the P2P exchanger, but might need to leave it out if the total cost became too high. I think he was genuinely scuppered when he entered it all in to his laptop afterwards, and the laptop gave a cough when it realised the age of my boiler. 

Yes, their policy is seemingly to ensure zero returns within 3 months, and that's what drove his seeming generosity! I doubt there's any incentive to him - the engineer or sub-contractor - in trying to avoid a job and using the cost as justification for cancelling, tho'.

I do get their reasoning, and I actually don't have any issue with their policies (I was a particularly fortunate recipient of it a few years back). My argument was that their 'algorithm' didn't take in to account the amount of new parts in my boiler - the vast majority, so it wasn't as scrap as it may have appeared.

(Anyhoo, they initially said 'no' to my request they refund the abortive fee. I explained again my reasoning - that they hadn't valued my boiler reasonably -  and requested - under the FOI Act - the valuation they gave it and the total cost of new parts they were planning to replace so I could take it further... They have just given me back my fee 'solely as a gesture of goodwill' )

Rosa_Damascena

Jeepers_Creepers said:

They have just given me back my fee 'solely as a gesture of goodwill' 

Result!

Jeepers_Creepers

Thanks. Yes - I suspect they groaned when asked to divulge all the pricing info :-)

Jumblebumble

michaels said:

I bet they have a model where the sub contractor repairer is responsible for any future repairs so is incentivised to bump up the job to a point where they just pocket the call out fee and leave.

My mated is a Gassafe and used to do work for an insurance company who changed their contract to do exactly what you suggest
He no longer works for them

Jumblebumble

Jeepers_Creepers said:

michaels said:

I bet they have a model where the sub contractor repairer is responsible for any future repairs so is incentivised to bump up the job to a point where they just pocket the call out fee and leave.

I have to say I was surprised at the list of parts he was planning to replace, but I think the actual engineer was totally sincere. He also said that he'd try and include the P2P exchanger, but might need to leave it out if the total cost became too high. I think he was genuinely scuppered when he entered it all in to his laptop afterwards, and the laptop gave a cough when it realised the age of my boiler. 

Yes, their policy is seemingly to ensure zero returns within 3 months, and that's what drove his seeming generosity! I doubt there's any incentive to him - the engineer or sub-contractor - in trying to avoid a job and using the cost as justification for cancelling, tho'.

I do get their reasoning, and I actually don't have any issue with their policies (I was a particularly fortunate recipient of it a few years back). My argument was that their 'algorithm' didn't take in to account the amount of new parts in my boiler - the vast majority, so it wasn't as scrap as it may have appeared.

(Anyhoo, they initially said 'no' to my request they refund the abortive fee. I explained again my reasoning - that they hadn't valued my boiler reasonably -  and requested - under the FOI Act - the valuation they gave it and the total cost of new parts they were planning to replace so I could take it further... They have just given me back my fee 'solely as a gesture of goodwill' )

Valiant have no reason to respond to a FOI as they are not a public body
However i am sure that they will always refund the call out if one makes a fuss as I do not imagine they would want the possibly  unfair contract terms tested by a small claims court and the result becoming public knowledge
Personally I think it outrageous to want to charge £95 if they are not willing to honour the fixed price repair and I would issuing an LBA to anyone who tried it.