Landscapers completed job incorrectly - issue with paving

Doozergirl

Classy.  

Shows you what you're dealing with.  

They go low, we go high 😉

brumbill

Doozergirl said:

Classy.  

Shows you what you're dealing with.  

They go low, we go high 😉

Doesn’t really fill you with confidence about a positive outcome though!

Jeepers_Creepers

Brumbill, I suggest you need 100% conclusive evidence that these tiles require a ~3mm gap. Contact the manufacturers/supplier for this. Ask what the consequences could be if an adequate gap wasn't provided. Send them a photo - including a close-up shot ideally with a mm rule over the gap - and ask their opinion on this work.

Then you will know where you stand. 

If they say 'No, that does not following the laying guidelines and will likely cause issues because...', then that's all you need to counter any argument from the landscaper. You should then be able to do pretty much what you choose, including suing them for the cost of the tiles if removing them to be relaid by another contractor will wreck them. 

If they are genuinely being abusive to your wife in a school playground (does your wife have a witness to this), then contact your local PC - harassment is not on. It will also make their 'case' harder to make. 

Them claiming that you had told them to fit them tight is ridiculous; as said before, if they knew that this was wrong, they simply shouldn't have followed your (non existent) wishes. And if they claim that they were reluctant to follow 'your request', then that indicates that they knew it was wrong before they did the work. They are stuffed either way.

Horrible situation. But you must find out - for certain - whether the tiles will be affected by this. 

If it turns out that a teeny-gap is actually ok and will work, are you otherwise happy with the job? Does it look good/ok them being without a grout line? 

brumbill

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Brumbill, I suggest you need 100% conclusive evidence that these tiles require a ~3mm gap. Contact the manufacturers/supplier for this. Ask what the consequences could be if an adequate gap wasn't provided. Send them a photo - including a close-up shot ideally with a mm rule over the gap - and ask their opinion on this work.

Then you will know where you stand. 

If they say 'No, that does not following the laying guidelines and will likely cause issues because...', then that's all you need to counter any argument from the landscaper. You should then be able to do pretty much what you choose, including suing them for the cost of the tiles if removing them to be relaid by another contractor will wreck them. 

If they are genuinely being abusive to your wife in a school playground (does your wife have a witness to this), then contact your local PC - harassment is not on. It will also make their 'case' harder to make. 

Them claiming that you had told them to fit them tight is ridiculous; as said before, if they knew that this was wrong, they simply shouldn't have followed your (non existent) wishes. And if they claim that they were reluctant to follow 'your request', then that indicates that they knew it was wrong before they did the work. They are stuffed either way.

Horrible situation. But you must find out - for certain - whether the tiles will be affected by this. 

If it turns out that a teeny-gap is actually ok and will work, are you otherwise happy with the job? Does it look good/ok them being without a grout line? 

We’ve had a report done to show the problems. The fact they are butted means any contraction/expansion in the slabs due to heat will eventually cause cracking round the edges, whilst as they have a bevelled edge, water can still get between them and when it freezes will cause them to chip as well

they don’t look great as they are as slabs are always a slightly different size, so as the patio goes along they fall out of line. Some of the corners aren’t quite level as well

Jeepers_Creepers

Who did this report? Have you had clarification from the tile supplier? 

(If the lack of gap has made the edging lines mismatch as the patio goes on, that sounds like enough reason on its own to know it was a bad move!

brumbill

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Who did this report? Have you had clarification from the tile supplier? 

(If the lack of gap has made the edging lines mismatch as the patio goes on, that sounds like enough reason on its own to know it was a bad move!

The report was done by an independent landscaper who regularly do work for the company we purchased the slabs from. The technical expert from the company we bought the slabs from has advised they have been fitted incorrectly, and guidance of how to install them is freely available on their website. 

Jeepers_Creepers

Cool - that's pretty conclusive!

Do you have Legal Protection on your home insurance? This seems like the kind of open-an-shut case they'll be happy to take on. Failing that, you may need to put a letter together yourself outlining the landscaper's options; they redo it all correctly - and then you will pay them - or you'll employ someone else to do so and sue them for the total cost, including any tiles damaged during removal. 

Tell them you've had an independent surveyor who works for the tile supplier and his report confirms it's been incorrectly done, and you have also been advised by the TE of the tile supplier that's it's incorrect (can you ask him to put this in writing?).

Make it clear that when you take legal action, it is virtually guaranteed to succeed; the landscaper has no case. 

Date it, and give them one week to respond. It should be sent in a way that delivery can be demonstrated. 

brumbill

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Cool - that's pretty conclusive!

Do you have Legal Protection on your home insurance? This seems like the kind of open-an-shut case they'll be happy to take on. Failing that, you may need to put a letter together yourself outlining the landscaper's options; they redo it all correctly - and then you will pay them - or you'll employ someone else to do so and sue them for the total cost, including any tiles damaged during removal. 

Tell them you've had an independent surveyor who works for the tile supplier and his report confirms it's been incorrectly done, and you have also been advised by the TE of the tile supplier that's it's incorrect (can you ask him to put this in writing?).

Make it clear that when you take legal action, it is virtually guaranteed to succeed; the landscaper has no case. 

Date it, and give them one week to respond. It should be sent in a way that delivery can be demonstrated. 

We’ve sent them a letter detailing the works that need doing with 14 days to respond. I also called them to explain we were sending the letter. He point blank said thy he will not come back to re-lay the patio, and he will take us to court for the money. He said they will come out to repair the wall and some other issues we have but not the patio. We advised if the other work Is rectified suitably then we will pay for that. But what we have left to pay of the bill will be nowhere near enough to cover the cost of digging up and relaying plus buying new slabs. Our case against them would be for them to pay for someone else to do the work if they are refusing to

brumbill

We’ve sent a letter detailing the work that needs to be done, following getting an independent report done. We gave them 14 days to respond. It’s now gone beyond that and we’ve heard nothing

brumbill

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Cool - that's pretty conclusive!

Do you have Legal Protection on your home insurance? This seems like the kind of open-an-shut case they'll be happy to take on. Failing that, you may need to put a letter together yourself outlining the landscaper's options; they redo it all correctly - and then you will pay them - or you'll employ someone else to do so and sue them for the total cost, including any tiles damaged during removal. 

Tell them you've had an independent surveyor who works for the tile supplier and his report confirms it's been incorrectly done, and you have also been advised by the TE of the tile supplier that's it's incorrect (can you ask him to put this in writing?).

Make it clear that when you take legal action, it is virtually guaranteed to succeed; the landscaper has no case. 

Date it, and give them one week to respond. It should be sent in a way that delivery can be demonstrated. 

So now we’ve given them the time to respond and they haven’t, what’s the next step? Is it telling them we will get another company to do it and they will have to pay them?