Loft conversion

rach_k

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

Rosa_Damascena

Doozergirl said:

t3rm3y2 said:

Plumber90 said:

t3rm3y2 said:

Our budget was £25,000 but at a push could get to £30,000 maximum

Just shop around, I had someone do a loft extension at my house. They did the stairs, steels, new joists and trusses, fitted 3 x windows (I supplied) supplied and fitted 1 x velux, 7. 5 metre long dormer which was rendered and made water tight, architect's drawings, structural engineers drawings and all the building control bits and pieces for about £17k all in.

I then sorted all the other bits my self so all in I reckon it's about £25k for a very large bedroom and ensuite plus new boiler and cylinder. 

Where abouts are you based? Who did you look for? A general builder/ company or a loft conversion company?

You know that loft conversion companies are just general builders with different marketing, right? 

And in practice, said marketing offers license to charge silly prices. I would always go with a trusted builder.

Re: bathroom question - I would suggest it is a good idea because as you age getting up and down stairs in a hurry in the dead of the night is a recipe for disaster. All it takes is a trip and things can go rapidly downhill from there.

t3rm3y2

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

rach_k

t3rm3y2 said:

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

You could do, but I think it's a lot of work if you have no experience!  Do you have somebody who can let you know the exact order everything needs to be done (would your carpenter friend help?).  I'm well organised but I don't think I could've organised ours myself.  Just dealing with all the contingencies would have resulted in hair loss, I think!  I suppose if you don't need it doing by any particular date, that might help.  For us, there were a few delays - dry rot found, nothing being square, lightning! - but our builder had enough contacts and knowledge to rearrange things, get different trades in, pull extra people off other jobs etc.  I couldn't have done that.  We got the bathroom installed separately and, because of scheduling, had to wait an extra month after the rest was complete.  Had we got the builder to sort it, it would have been done by the time the rest was finished.  

Our builder has an architect he usually uses, but we paid the architect direct.  Then the builder talked with him directly when he needed things (like extra calculations doing) - I think that's the best of both worlds as you know the builder isn't taking a cut but they can get on without you having to act as go-between.  

I haven't mentioned the cost of our loft conversion as it's quite different - 2 bedrooms (one double, one what I would describe as a 'teenager room' i.e. lots of floor space but a sloped roof!) plus a proper family bathroom.  It cost £67K including new doors throughout the house, plastering, skirting and first fix plumbing.  We then had the bathroom installed at extra expense.  It wasn't cheap but was cheaper than moving to a house with two more bedrooms in South London! 

Rosa_Damascena

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

There are plenty of cowboys around in Essex, we might as well be in the Wild West. Don't forget that it's easy for good builders to pick up more lucrative work in London. Whereabouts in Essex are you?

t3rm3y2

Rosa_Damascena said:

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

There are plenty of cowboys around in Essex, we might as well be in the Wild West. Don't forget that it's easy for good builders to pick up more lucrative work in London. Whereabouts in Essex are you?

Hi, we are north Essex, just outside a village called hedingham not far from Suffolk border

Doozergirl

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

I really don't think that would be a good idea for you.  With respect, your knowledge and understanding of the people and processes involved is pretty much non-existant.  Putting yourself in a position of managing a major building project isn't going to be easy, and there is a lot to go wrong.  It isn't just one door that needs replacing, it's all of them.  You'll need more trades than you've mentioned and to be able to deal with building control yourselves.   Insulation is a major part of a conversion, which you've not mentioned, but is expensive. The roofer has been forgotten, as has the structural engineer.  You don't know what order the trades go in either - they cross over, one is not generally replaced by another.  

No sensible builder is going to take on a part-project for someone that doesn't know what they're talking about.   The chances of their experience not being valued is about 100% in your case, yet they will be relied upon as proxy project manager but not paid accordingly for the stress - and then blamed.  

I was with a friend last night who has been quoted £45k for a modest loft conversion with a bathroom on the south coast.  Your quote isn't totally obscene and the cost of labour and materials are rising rapidly.  

I would get more quotes but I will tell you again, do not expect this project to fit the amount of money you have in the bank, and do not underestimate a project manager's experience.  Not valuing builders is exactly how people end up in deep water, taking on unscrupulous or inexperienced builders that underestimate a job. It isn't the builder that lives with the consequence of that.  

ComicGeek

t3rm3y2 said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

There are plenty of cowboys around in Essex, we might as well be in the Wild West. Don't forget that it's easy for good builders to pick up more lucrative work in London. Whereabouts in Essex are you?

Hi, we are north Essex, just outside a village called hedingham not far from Suffolk border

Most builders that I know in the area (I'm just across the Suffolk border) are really busy. We've just got our builder booked in for Jan 2021, their first available slot for the project size.

I work in the construction industry but still appointed an architect to produce the tender and contract docs. I discounted 2 builders because they refused to use the standard JCT contracts and wanted to use their own, so you always have to look out for those trying to get an advantage.

Asking the builder to produce the spec is the wrong way round, and those that are busy aren't going to bother. It takes time and money to produce tenders/prices, so every builder has to assess how serious you are and how much hassle you will be - those with extremely tight budgets are always difficult to work for. So if you approach it the wrong way then you'll only get those who are desperate for work.

Rosa_Damascena

t3rm3y2 said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

There are plenty of cowboys around in Essex, we might as well be in the Wild West. Don't forget that it's easy for good builders to pick up more lucrative work in London. Whereabouts in Essex are you?

Hi, we are north Essex, just outside a village called hedingham not far from Suffolk border

That does explain it. Builders are super-busy atm so can name both their price and their time slot, but being in the sticks doesn't help. Nice part of the world, though.

Rosa_Damascena

Doozergirl said:

I really don't think that would be a good idea for you.  With respect, your knowledge and understanding of the people and processes involved is pretty much non-existant.  Putting yourself in a position of managing a major building project isn't going to be easy, and there is a lot to go wrong.  It isn't just one door that needs replacing, it's all of them.  You'll need more trades than you've mentioned and to be able to deal with building control yourselves.   Insulation is a major part of a conversion, which you've not mentioned, but is expensive. The roofer has been forgotten, as has the structural engineer.  You don't know what order the trades go in either - they cross over, one is not generally replaced by another.  

No sensible builder is going to take on a part-project for someone that doesn't know what they're talking about.   The chances of their experience not being valued is about 100% in your case, yet they will be relied upon as proxy project manager but not paid accordingly for the stress - and then blamed.  

I was with a friend last night who has been quoted £45k for a modest loft conversion with a bathroom on the south coast.  Your quote isn't totally obscene and the cost of labour and materials are rising rapidly.  

I would get more quotes but I will tell you again, do not expect this project to fit the amount of money you have in the bank, and do not underestimate a project manager's experience.  Not valuing builders is exactly how people end up in deep water, taking on unscrupulous or inexperienced builders that underestimate a job. It isn't the builder that lives with the consequence of that.  

Harsh words but ultimately true. I was full of home truths as a youngster, perhaps I am getting mellow in my old age?