Loft conversion

ComicGeek

Rosa_Damascena said:

t3rm3y2 said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

There are plenty of cowboys around in Essex, we might as well be in the Wild West. Don't forget that it's easy for good builders to pick up more lucrative work in London. Whereabouts in Essex are you?

Hi, we are north Essex, just outside a village called hedingham not far from Suffolk border

That does explain it. Builders are super-busy atm so can name both their price and their time slot, but being in the sticks doesn't help. Nice part of the world, though.

Not in the sticks at all, lots of good builders close to the OP, I can think of at least 6 - just none willing to help someone with no experience save pennies at their expense.

Doozergirl

Rosa_Damascena said:

Doozergirl said:

I really don't think that would be a good idea for you.  With respect, your knowledge and understanding of the people and processes involved is pretty much non-existant.  Putting yourself in a position of managing a major building project isn't going to be easy, and there is a lot to go wrong.  It isn't just one door that needs replacing, it's all of them.  You'll need more trades than you've mentioned and to be able to deal with building control yourselves.   Insulation is a major part of a conversion, which you've not mentioned, but is expensive. The roofer has been forgotten, as has the structural engineer.  You don't know what order the trades go in either - they cross over, one is not generally replaced by another.  

No sensible builder is going to take on a part-project for someone that doesn't know what they're talking about.   The chances of their experience not being valued is about 100% in your case, yet they will be relied upon as proxy project manager but not paid accordingly for the stress - and then blamed.  

I was with a friend last night who has been quoted £45k for a modest loft conversion with a bathroom on the south coast.  Your quote isn't totally obscene and the cost of labour and materials are rising rapidly.  

I would get more quotes but I will tell you again, do not expect this project to fit the amount of money you have in the bank, and do not underestimate a project manager's experience.  Not valuing builders is exactly how people end up in deep water, taking on unscrupulous or inexperienced builders that underestimate a job. It isn't the builder that lives with the consequence of that.  

Harsh words but ultimately true. I was full of home truths as a youngster, perhaps I am getting mellow in my old age?

Dress it up and people don't take it seriously, especially on a forum.  15 years on this board and people will always hear what they want to.  I've picked up an impression from the OP that they they think that it's quite easy.   

8 years of doing this work for other people and we learned within a year to trust our gut on meeting potential clients.  Being active in the FMB now, I discover that everyone's learned exactly the same lesson the hard way.  You must feel valued, not just required.    Good builders won't give you the benefit of the doubt, unfortunately.  

We have enough people on this board that come here after the event and want help, but it's too late at that point to offer much but a bit of sympathy and advice on what to do next time. I have a good friend who gets caught out all the time because she's after the deal.   It can't be the priority, it's a huge expense and major structural work on your most prized asset.  Protect it.  

Rosa_Damascena

ComicGeek said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

t3rm3y2 said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

There are plenty of cowboys around in Essex, we might as well be in the Wild West. Don't forget that it's easy for good builders to pick up more lucrative work in London. Whereabouts in Essex are you?

Hi, we are north Essex, just outside a village called hedingham not far from Suffolk border

That does explain it. Builders are super-busy atm so can name both their price and their time slot, but being in the sticks doesn't help. Nice part of the world, though.

Not in the sticks at all, lots of good builders close to the OP, I can think of at least 6 - just none willing to help someone with no experience save pennies at their expense.

Its a question of perspective I suppose. I'm in a quiet suburban area of a busy town in South Essex. As soon as we enter BST (or exit lockdown, in the case of 2020), the street is awash with skips and scaffolding! I consider anything north or east of Chelmsford to be rural, until you get towards the centre of Colchester. And why on earth would anyone want to head in that direction anyway unless there is a country pub you particularly love?

t3rm3y2

Doozergirl said:

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

I really don't think that would be a good idea for you.  With respect, your knowledge and understanding of the people and processes involved is pretty much non-existant.  Putting yourself in a position of managing a major building project isn't going to be easy, and there is a lot to go wrong.  It isn't just one door that needs replacing, it's all of them.  You'll need more trades than you've mentioned and to be able to deal with building control yourselves.   Insulation is a major part of a conversion, which you've not mentioned, but is expensive. The roofer has been forgotten, as has the structural engineer.  You don't know what order the trades go in either - they cross over, one is not generally replaced by another.  

No sensible builder is going to take on a part-project for someone that doesn't know what they're talking about.   The chances of their experience not being valued is about 100% in your case, yet they will be relied upon as proxy project manager but not paid accordingly for the stress - and then blamed.  

I was with a friend last night who has been quoted £45k for a modest loft conversion with a bathroom on the south coast.  Your quote isn't totally obscene and the cost of labour and materials are rising rapidly.  

I would get more quotes but I will tell you again, do not expect this project to fit the amount of money you have in the bank, and do not underestimate a project manager's experience.  Not valuing builders is exactly how people end up in deep water, taking on unscrupulous or inexperienced builders that underestimate a job. It isn't the builder that lives with the consequence of that.  

I do hear what you are saying, it's just frustrating when it seems other people are able to get a far cheaper price, someone on this thread mentioned paying £17,000 and doing some bits themselves, costing total £25,000. Our neighbour who I need to speak to reckons paid low £30,000 yet I'm getting a quote of £40,000 which is a massive amount more.
Not trying to save pennies here as another wrote, hoping to saving £10,000 on the project. 😃
I get the builders will charge what they can and if have the work they don't need to drop prices but if we were able to find a builder to do some/most and other trades to do the other bits around them then maybe that helps everyone out.

ComicGeek

t3rm3y2 said:

Doozergirl said:

t3rm3y2 said:

rach_k said:

Have any of your neighbours had a loft conversion done?  It's better to get a recommendation than to use just the phone book or places like Checkatrade.  We saw a couple of local companies we didn't want to use (we saw how they did neighbours' houses!) so asked our plumber if he knew of anybody.  He recommended a company that was excellent - they are 'builders and carpenters' who do a lot of loft conversions so we felt we were in safe hands.

You need architects to do things like work out what steels you need and the plans they draw up will be sent to building control so they can see the calculations have been done, as well as used by the builder.  It's not something your builder or carpenter can just eye-ball, as it needs to support the weight of the new rooms as well as the roof, and to make sure the load is placed correctly on the walls below.  Not something you want to just guesstimate!  They will also tell you things like what other doors in your home need replacing or modifying (you need a protected fire route out of the attic), where you need wired smoke alarms, what you can do under permitted development, what kinds of windows you need (escape ones) etc.  Our council thought we were extending more than we were allowed under permitted development so the architect's calculations were important to show that we weren't.  If you have any party walls, the plans can help with your party wall agreement too - we gave copies to our neighbours so they could see exactly how they would be affected.

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying. 
So we could get the architect independently, and a builder to I stall the steel and windows, a carpenter friend to build the wood work and frame , an electrician to install the firalarms and a separate plasterer to finish off.? 
Essex seems a very expensive place for getting quotes compared to some other counties.

I really don't think that would be a good idea for you.  With respect, your knowledge and understanding of the people and processes involved is pretty much non-existant.  Putting yourself in a position of managing a major building project isn't going to be easy, and there is a lot to go wrong.  It isn't just one door that needs replacing, it's all of them.  You'll need more trades than you've mentioned and to be able to deal with building control yourselves.   Insulation is a major part of a conversion, which you've not mentioned, but is expensive. The roofer has been forgotten, as has the structural engineer.  You don't know what order the trades go in either - they cross over, one is not generally replaced by another.  

No sensible builder is going to take on a part-project for someone that doesn't know what they're talking about.   The chances of their experience not being valued is about 100% in your case, yet they will be relied upon as proxy project manager but not paid accordingly for the stress - and then blamed.  

I was with a friend last night who has been quoted £45k for a modest loft conversion with a bathroom on the south coast.  Your quote isn't totally obscene and the cost of labour and materials are rising rapidly.  

I would get more quotes but I will tell you again, do not expect this project to fit the amount of money you have in the bank, and do not underestimate a project manager's experience.  Not valuing builders is exactly how people end up in deep water, taking on unscrupulous or inexperienced builders that underestimate a job. It isn't the builder that lives with the consequence of that.  

I get the builders will charge what they can and if have the work they don't need to drop prices but if we were able to find a builder to do some/most and other trades to do the other bits around them then maybe that helps everyone out.

It doesn't help the builder out for all the good reasons identified above - so why would they bother in order to help a complete stranger save money at their own expense??

I'm getting a new boiler, changes to pipework layouts, new kitchen, new bathroom as part of our extension/refurb - I've sourced quotations from particular people that I want to use, but the builder adds their management fee on top of this. I'm happy with this because I know how much time it takes to project manage sub contractors and I don't have that time - the builder is best placed to do that from site, and I'm happy to pay them to do it.

rach_k

t3rm3y2 said:

I do hear what you are saying, it's just frustrating when it seems other people are able to get a far cheaper price, someone on this thread mentioned paying £17,000 and doing some bits themselves, costing total £25,000. Our neighbour who I need to speak to reckons paid low £30,000 yet I'm getting a quote of £40,000 which is a massive amount more.
Not trying to save pennies here as another wrote, hoping to saving £10,000 on the project. 😃
I get the builders will charge what they can and if have the work they don't need to drop prices but if we were able to find a builder to do some/most and other trades to do the other bits around them then maybe that helps everyone out.

If you live in an expensive area, you could always move somewhere cheaper where you won't have to pay higher prices.  I know it's not nice knowing you pay more, particularly if you're not earning more than you would elsewhere, but that's the reality.

I honestly think you're a fool if you try what you're suggesting.  You don't know what you're doing; you will make mistakes that end up costing you more in the long run, or you'll end up with a terrible end result that won't add its own cost to the value of your home.  I paid a lot of attention when our loft was done - always asking stupid questions and the builder was happy to explain everything - and it was only done at the end of last year, but I still wouldn't attempt even a basic loft conversion myself.  Perhaps you just need to accept that you don't have the money you need at the moment.  

ElephantBoy57

t3rm3y2 said:

A neighbour did have theirs done. Said paid about 30,000 but this is the company that is quoting us £40,000 for less work. Which is a little annoying.

How long ago was this? In these COVID times some businesses are hiking their prices by over 30% and others offering a discount.

trickyharris

Plumber90 said:

t3rm3y2 said:

Plumber90 said:

t3rm3y2 said:

Our budget was £25,000 but at a push could get to £30,000 maximum

Just shop around, I had someone do a loft extension at my house. They did the stairs, steels, new joists and trusses, fitted 3 x windows (I supplied) supplied and fitted 1 x velux, 7. 5 metre long dormer which was rendered and made water tight, architect's drawings, structural engineers drawings and all the building control bits and pieces for about £17k all in.

I then sorted all the other bits my self so all in I reckon it's about £25k for a very large bedroom and ensuite plus new boiler and cylinder. 

Where abouts are you based? Who did you look for? A general builder/ company or a loft conversion company?

I'm from Hampshire, the company is a do loft/garage conversions, new builds, bathrooms, kitchens so aren't a dedicated to just loft conversions. 

Hi there, sorry to bring up an old thread. I'm also in Hampshire - would you mind sharing the company you used as a recommendation? Did you already have architect plans, or did they design?