Renovation of a listed building

soso17

We are about to embark on the renovation of a listed building - we will have a contractor but I will be overseeing the project management (gulp). Could someone please point me towards any good spreadsheets that I could use to track and manage the costs?
Also, any tips for renovating listed buildings? Sadly the VAT savings that used to exist have been scrapped but I'd love to know if there is anything else out there that I should be exploring?
Thanks very much.

littlerock

Keep on good terms with your local. CONSERVATION OFFICER in the council.. Use a specialist conservation architect when you need one. Historic England can also provide useful advice. 
 

Mickey666

Honestly, tracking and managing the cost will be the least of your problems. Excel will be fine.

But I hope your contractor has plenty of experience with listed buildings.  I've spent the last dozen years or so renovating my G2* home and finding knowledgeable tradesmen has been a very large part of the challenge.  A good rule of thumb is to dismiss anyone who talks about using cement, plasterboard or 'pink'!

It's a bit worrying that you're asking for 'tips' about listed buildings on a money saving forum.  Have you looked at the SPAB website or more specialised forums such as 'period property uk'?  Also, have you discussed your proposed works with your local council conservation/historic buildings officer?  They should be a good source of advice.  In fact my CO has been my best source of advice.  Oh, and you do have, or intend to apply for, Listed Building Consent for any alterations I presume?  Because, as you probably know, it's a criminal offence to make any significant changes without LBC.

As for VAT savings, you're right that they've been scrapped (2013 I seem to recall?) but they were only ever applicable to alteration works for which LBC was required, not repairs.  Also, the VAT savings could not be accessed by DIYers, which I was particularly irked about.  Still, all a bit academic now.

Don't let me put you off though, it will hopefully be as rewarding an experience for you as it has been for me.  How old is the house and what form of construction is it?

stuart45

My daughter and her husband are having some roof repairs on their grade2* house, and are not allowed to use a membrane to replace any damaged felt.

Mickey666

Seems a strange decision.  I was granted LBC to completely strip my G2* roof and add a breathable membrane before replacing the tiles.

TELLIT01

Mickey666 said:

Seems a strange decision.  I was granted LBC to completely strip my G2* roof and add a breathable membrane before replacing the tiles.

I suspect that is simply down to interpretation of the rules by the local person responsible.  It would seem counter productive to refuse permission to use a material which can actually be beneficial to the property.

stuart45

I was surprised as well. Any rotten rafters have stay as well, and be sistered so the originals are still visible if anyone goes in the roof space.

Mickey666

That’s fairly standard ‘honest repair’ practice.  Helps to prevent a house becoming Triggers’ Broom.

FreeBear

Mickey666 said: Oh, and you do have, or intend to apply for, Listed Building Consent for any alterations I presume?  Because, as you probably know, it's a criminal offence to make any significant changes without LBC.

Failure to apply for, or follow the conditions of any LBC could result in prosecution - Both the contractor doing the work, and the owner run the risk of a criminal record and some pretty hefty fines and/or prison time. A couple of cases to demonstrate the point -

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/couple-hit-massive-fine-destroying-3506448

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-32487031

Involving the local conservation officer from the earliest point is the best thing you can do. Treat him as a friend rather than an enemy, and things will go a lot smoother.

Mickey666

TELLIT01 said:

Mickey666 said:

Seems a strange decision.  I was granted LBC to completely strip my G2* roof and add a breathable membrane before replacing the tiles.

I suspect that is simply down to interpretation of the rules by the local person responsible.  It would seem counter productive to refuse permission to use a material which can actually be beneficial to the property.

Unfortunately there's an element of that.  If you read some of the period property forums on the web complaints about COs are fairly common.  However, in many cases the complaints are because the person wants to do something completely unacceptable, like adding a plastic conservatory to a 17th century building (extreme, but it happens!), but a good CO should be able to understand what the owner is trying to achieve and help them find an acceptable way of achieving it while retaining the essential character and historically important aspects of the property.

Listing IS NOT intended to prevent any changes to a property.  There are NO unchanged properties in the UK, listed or not, because all have gradually changed over the years.  For example, if my house hadn't been altered in 400 years there would be no electricity, no gas, no indoor sanitation or plumbing and possibly no glass in the windows and no one would be willing to live in it so it wuld be lost through neglect and decay.  In fact, although the main part dates to the 16th century, it has additions from the 17th and 18th centuries and now I have added a 21st century addition - that is all a part of the history of the house. 

Even the National Planning Policy Framework, the 'bible' for all planning in the UK including listed properties, explicity recognises that without the ability to be altered to cater for modern living, listed buildings would become unattractive as homes, would become neglected and ultimately lost through decay:

Conservation is an active process of maintenance and managing change. It requires a flexible and thoughtful approach to get the best out of assets as diverse as listed buildings in everyday use and as yet undiscovered, undesignated buried remains of archaeological interest.

In the case of buildings, generally the risks of neglect and decay of heritage assets are best addressed through ensuring that they remain in active use that is consistent with their conservation. Ensuring such heritage assets remain used and valued is likely to require sympathetic changes to be made from time to time.

Paragraph: 002 Reference ID: 18a-002-20190723

Revision date: 23 07 2019

With the close cooperation and advice from my council CO and Heritage England, I've made four LBC applications, all of them successful, so the idea that listing is very restrictive is simply not true and is generally a result of misunderstanding the system. 

Rosa_Damascena

Mickey666 said:

Honestly, tracking and managing the cost will be the least of your problems. Excel will be fine.

But I hope your contractor has plenty of experience with listed buildings.  I've spent the last dozen years or so renovating my G2* home and finding knowledgeable tradesmen has been a very large part of the challenge.  A good rule of thumb is to dismiss anyone who talks about using cement, plasterboard or 'pink'!

Even in beautiful Suffolk?