Euro car parks PCN during COVID-19 Lockdown

beamerguy

What I don't understand is that recently the CEO of M&S told Euro to cancel a ticket and apologised.
Same reason, delays because of covid.
Did you contact the CEO ?    Maybe you should tell him that you will involve M&S in the court action to explain why he uses scammers to extort money whilst his customers are obeying government instructions

DimDi

KeithP said:

Section 5.
What's the point of that section?

Do you realise that the whole point of POFA is to transfer any liability the driver may have to the keeper?
So if they have failed to abide by POFA rules then the only result of that failure is that they cannot hold the Registered Keeper liable unless they know that the RK was the driver.

I cannot see anywhere in that PoPLA appeal that the RK has denied being the driver. 
Does ECP already know who was driving?

No,they did not.I’ve done my appeal to ECP as a RK,not the driver.Should I include here as well that I appeal as a RK?

Redx

You state that the claimant ECP have not identified the driver and have not provided any evidence that the RK was the driver and so as RK you have no legal liability under POFA because the claimant have not complied with POFA

That is if they have failed to comply with POFA , spell it out !!

DimDi

beamerguy said:

What I don't understand is that recently the CEO of M&S told Euro to cancel a ticket and apologised.
Same reason, delays because of covid.
Did you contact the CEO ?    Maybe you should tell him that you will involve M&S in the court action to explain why he uses scammers to extort money whilst his customers are obeying government instructions

See my complaint to M&S CEO below:

Dear Mr Rowe,

 

I am writing to you  regarding a Parking charge notice received whilst parking at the M&S Store in St Albans,21 St Peter Street on 23 June 2020.  See attached this ‘notice’ was issued by Euro Car Parks on 31 July 2020 with Ref. Number: 88883422162.

 

After driving in with my husband and finding a space as I was 30th  week pregnant at that time, donning mask, sanitising, getting a trolley, queuing to get in as the 2 meter apart rule was on , sanitising our trolley and social distancing within the store  – when we finally got to the check out and paid the bill , returned to the car, packed the shopping  all in, returned the trolley, sanitised again, removed our masks, had a drink of water  and drove out  – it clearly wasn’t enough time.I have to mention that the car park  payment machines was not working at the time and there was a note stating that it is free of charge for two hours(see the note attached),but there was no way to pay for more.

 

By the time we had done all of this and due my pregnancy and COVID-19 measures we had overstayed – our arrival was 09:45 and we departed at 12:31 – a total time of 2 hours and 46 minutes. For this additional time taken I have been charged £85 if I accept liability and pay – which I do not, and will not do. 

 

In these unprecedented and trying times,I don’t think it is unreasonable to extend the amount of time that is given to shop safely,  I understand this and wait patiently in the queue and abide by all the social distancing rules,  of course this means that the time given to parking at your sites  should also be extended appropriately – and I hope that you will look into this.

 

Today, 10th of August I went to the store and made a complaint about this to a supervisor/manager named Isaac and I was left frustrated after he told me that due to the COVID, there is a huge amount of complaints and there is nothing he can do about it. According to him I have to appeal straight with Euro Car Parks. With my baby due in a couple of weeks,this is the last thing I was expecting to worry about and I know that Euro Car Parks are independent operators of your car park, but your name and reputation are why I visited your supermarket that day and why my family and lots of my friends are your valued customers.

 

I have no intention of paying the ‘notice’, but as a goodwill gesture I would appreciate it if you could contact Euro Car Parks and request on my behalf that this ‘fine’ is quashed. 

 

 I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Kind Regards,

And the answer I received from M&S CEO regarding my complain:

Dear Mrs XXXXX, 

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to Steve Rowe. As a member of the Executive Team, I am responding on his behalf. 

I am sorry you have received a parking fine following your visit to our St Albans M&S in June. I understand the upset this has caused and why you have brought it to our attention. 

 

The car park in the location is operated by a third party, Euro Car Parks. There is clear signage on display throughout the car park advising of the terms and conditions. There is a two hour maximum time frame to use the car park and this has been the limit since before the pandemic. I am sorry, but you would have to contact Euro Car Parks to appeal this directly, as we would be unable to intervene. 

 

I apologise we are unable to assist you further in regard to the parking charge notice, but I would like to thank you for taking the time to bring it to Steve's attention. 

Kind regards

Lauren Harvey
Executive Team
Your M&S Customer Service

KeithP

DimDi said:

KeithP said:

Section 5.
What's the point of that section?

Do you realise that the whole point of POFA is to transfer any liability the driver may have to the keeper?
So if they have failed to abide by POFA rules then the only result of that failure is that they cannot hold the Registered Keeper liable unless they know that the RK was the driver.

I cannot see anywhere in that PoPLA appeal that the RK has denied being the driver. 
Does ECP already know who was driving?

No,they did not.I’ve done my appeal to ECP as a RK,not the driver.Should I include here as well that I appeal as a RK?

Well yes. You must.
Your section 5 falls short of telling PoPLA that ECP cannot hold the keeper liable for anything the driver may have done wrong because they have failed to abide by the terms of POFA.

Look again at the third post of the NEWBIES thread.
In particular, the link following the words The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge.

Redx

So maybe they are indirectly stating that they are not the landowner , meaning you find them or the managing agent instead

DimDi

Redx said:

You state that the claimant ECP have not identified the driver and have not provided any evidence that the RK was the driver and so as RK you have no legal liability under POFA because the claimant have not complied with POFA

That is if they have failed to comply with POFA , spell it out !!

Understood.Thanks RedX and KeithP.I’ll add the text needed to number 5 then.I assume the others are fine then?

KeithP

DimDi said:

I’ll scrap number 5 then.

Why?

Your Section 5 argues that they have not met the terms of POFA.

What you need to do is add to that stating that as ECP has not complied with POFA, and as ECP have not proved that the RK was actually driving, then the RK has no case to answer.

Read that part of the third post of the NEWBIES thread that I pointed you towards earlier.
That whole argument has already been written for you - ready to copy and paste into your PoPLA appeal.

Umkomaas

If this is the car park at the rear of M&S (and Tesco) it seems to me that M&S aren't the landowner. 

I'm not clear from your initial post - did you use the car park initially for the purpose of parking for your appointment with the midwife?  If so, I'm afraid those sort of days are long over, every private car park is a bear trap .... and PPC income is 80% down, they're hungry!

Coupon-mad

What else should I do? So far because of this they lost at least 10 customers - friends and family.

That is what you should be saying in reply and ask them to reconsider, or pass the complaint to the landowner, if it wasn't M&S who contracted ECP.  Someone can cancel this.

STOP DOING POPLA FIRST. 

YOU HAVE 33 DAYS TO USE THAT POPLA CODE.   What's the date on the rejection letter? 

Put POPLA on the back burner because you need the landowner to cancel it, by having another go at M&S, as above.  Also ask them why they think it is OK to have a 2hr limit PRE-Covid but not increase it or suspend enforcement due to the queues for social distancing that cause people to take longer to shop.