New Flat all electric...help me!

RelievedSheff

macman said:

Which supplier is currently offering gas at 2p per kWh including VAT?
In addition, you are not factoring in the greater efficiency of electricity per kWh (100% compared to 85% at best for gas). Nor are you factoring in the standing charges for gas supply (typically 15p per day or £55pa), and the annual cost of a boiler service (£75 to £90).
I didn't say that E7 was as cheap as gas, I said it was on a par with. My interpretation of that is that it could be within maybe 10% of the cost of gas, depending on how it's used. As long as the boost facility is not used too often for hot water, costs are reasonable.
NB: Gerry1: last year, my MIL enjoyed all her off-peak electricity at a rate of precisely 0p per kWh, on the Ebico Night Owl tariff, sadly no longer available. But it was nice while it lasted.

Modern condensing boilers set up properly will run at over 90% efficiency, some claim to achieve 98% efficiency.

The benefit of gas is of course the price is the same regardless of the time of day that you use it. If you get chilly during the day or you want hot water you can get it without the costs being astronomical. With Economy 7 you are restricted to the hours where heating and hot water are affordable. Storing heat be it in storage heaters or hot water tanks results in heat losses throughout the day when you don't really want/need it.

You only have to look at the number of posts on this section of the forum relating to all electric properties and high bills to see that it is far more difficult to get an efficient and cost effective heating and hot water system with an all electric property.

We will have to wait and see if the government drop their intended policy that all new build homes will have no gas boilers from 2025.

[Deleted User]

RelievedSheff said:

Your tariff must be quite expensive if 4000 kWh per annum costs you £50-65 per month!

We pay £60 per month for a 3 bed detached house and are running quite a large credit balance at the moment in readiness for the winter months.

It’s probably slightly over that annual usage, the last bill was charged at the average unit rate between June and August which was 10.56p/kWh and a standing charge of 16.08p a day. We have both been working from home since March so seeing a bit more usage now although nothing drastic.

I am hoping to have a smart meter sorted soon so we can get onto the Agile tariff as our main usage is outside of the peak times.

Gerry1

macman said:

Which supplier is currently offering gas at 2p per kWh including VAT?
I didn't say that E7 was as cheap as gas, I said it was on a par with. My interpretation of that is that it could be within maybe 10% of the cost of gas, depending on how it's used.

I'm paying 2.02p/kWh inc VAT for gas with Robin Hood Energy. So who offers E7 cheap rate at (2.02p/kWh+10%) = 2.222p/kWh?

NOBODY !

sandkeeper

Haven't read all the comments and not a regular here (stumbled in while looking for something else), but wanted to add some reassurance...

I've just moved out of an all-electric* flat where I've been for 5 years: it was one bedroom but large rooms, so we're not talking a studio here. It had Economy 7 heating, immersion boiler and a single storage heater in the living room: all other heating was direct electric.

Bills were £30 - £35 a month, rising to £50 in winter, which I'm calling around 3 months from December-February, since all other months it was still warm enough that heating wasn't needed. We reckoned around 65% of energy use was at the low, night-time rate, when the water was heating.

A few years in, the storage heater got a bit finicky and wouldn't "store" properly anymore, blasting out in the middle of the night. So we stopped using it like that and there wasn't a massive difference in prices: we turned it on less in the day and probably used less heat overall, but it was at the times we needed it instead of an all-day background heat.

To be honest I think we benefitted a lot from having neighbours on 5 out of 6 sides (3 sides, + above and below). The flat wasn't particularly energy efficient apart from this, and it's obviously going to be really variable by property. I just wanted to post to say that all-electric isn't *definitely* a nightmare for bills. The biggest annoyance was running out of hot water and having to use the daytime 'boost' - by far my least favourite aspect of the energy set-up.

*technically it had gas too, but only for the hob. I switched to a tariff with zero standing charge and paid about £6 a year for gas.

macman

RelievedSheff said:

macman said:

Which supplier is currently offering gas at 2p per kWh including VAT?
In addition, you are not factoring in the greater efficiency of electricity per kWh (100% compared to 85% at best for gas). Nor are you factoring in the standing charges for gas supply (typically 15p per day or £55pa), and the annual cost of a boiler service (£75 to £90).
I didn't say that E7 was as cheap as gas, I said it was on a par with. My interpretation of that is that it could be within maybe 10% of the cost of gas, depending on how it's used. As long as the boost facility is not used too often for hot water, costs are reasonable.
NB: Gerry1: last year, my MIL enjoyed all her off-peak electricity at a rate of precisely 0p per kWh, on the Ebico Night Owl tariff, sadly no longer available. But it was nice while it lasted.

Modern condensing boilers set up properly will run at over 90% efficiency, some claim to achieve 98% efficiency.

The benefit of gas is of course the price is the same regardless of the time of day that you use it. If you get chilly during the day or you want hot water you can get it without the costs being astronomical. With Economy 7 you are restricted to the hours where heating and hot water are affordable. Storing heat be it in storage heaters or hot water tanks results in heat losses throughout the day when you don't really want/need it.

You only have to look at the number of posts on this section of the forum relating to all electric properties and high bills to see that it is far more difficult to get an efficient and cost effective heating and hot water system with an all electric property.

We will have to wait and see if the government drop their intended policy that all new build homes will have no gas boilers from 2025.

Unfortunately we live in the real world, where most properties will not have highly efficient condensing boilers running at a constant 90% efficiency. Secondly, you are changing the goalposts by discussing the greater flexibility available with gas heating: this is not denied. My point was that it shouldn't be assumed that the OP is facing sky-high bills just because they have rented in an all-electric property. We simply don't have the facts available to support that-and the OP has not bothered to come back to enlighten us.
And, lest you think that I'm some sort of fanatical all-electric heating proponent, I'm not. I'd agree with you that the 2025 new-build gas boiler phase-out is ill conceived and unworkable (assuming that is what you think). 

RelievedSheff

Hopefully the OP can come back after this winter and let us know how they have gotten in with their all electric flat and how much it has skint cost them over the winter.

I'm not so sure that pointing out the greater flexibility of gas is moving the goal posts at all. It is one of the benefits of a gas heating and hot water system over a Economy 7 electric only tariff. The same unit price regardless of the time of day.

macman

Gerry1 said:

macman said:

Which supplier is currently offering gas at 2p per kWh including VAT?
I didn't say that E7 was as cheap as gas, I said it was on a par with. My interpretation of that is that it could be within maybe 10% of the cost of gas, depending on how it's used.

I'm paying 2.02p/kWh inc VAT for gas with Robin Hood Energy. So who offers E7 cheap rate at (2.02p/kWh+10%) = 2.222p/kWh?

NOBODY !

No-one does, obviously. But all you are doing is repeating the same old 'cheapest rate per kWh' mantra. Try working out the actual costs of ownership. Assuming average usage of 12,000 kWh annually, then add 1) the annual boiler service cost (£75), 2) the lower efficiency of your boiler versus electric heating (I'll be generous and assume yours is 90% efficient, so add 10% to your consumption), and 3) the daily standing charge (RHE charge a steep 29.67p per day on their cheapest current gas tariff in my region, so that's an extra £108.30pa.)  
If you factor all that in and reconvert costs per annum back to the kWh unit rate that you are so obsessed with, it goes from 2.222p to 3.75p per kWh, which is not so far away from the cheapest night-rate quote i can find for E7, being Utilita's 4.385p.
And, if you had a single boiler engineer call out in any one year, or wasted your money on a Homecare policy, that would be a minimum of £100, so add another 0.8p to your unit rate.
Yes, there is a gap, but it's not as big as you are suggesting by quoting only the unit rate.

Gerry1

macman said:

Gerry1 said:

macman said:

Which supplier is currently offering gas at 2p per kWh including VAT?
I didn't say that E7 was as cheap as gas, I said it was on a par with. My interpretation of that is that it could be within maybe 10% of the cost of gas, depending on how it's used.

I'm paying 2.02p/kWh inc VAT for gas with Robin Hood Energy. So who offers E7 cheap rate at (2.02p/kWh+10%) = 2.222p/kWh?

NOBODY !

the cheapest night-rate quote i can find for E7, being Utilita's 4.385p.

Which wouldn't be much use for most people because Utitata insist on smart meters (comparison sites and their own website won't even give a quotation if you don't have one), but they haven't got any E7 smart meters ! 

Little wonder that Utilita are next to bottom in the Citizens' Advice ratings.

Rikkka

Guys as I said the other day I'm very bad at this, I've never done it. Today I entered for the first time in the house, I took a photo of the meter...when I entered the numbers were 44371. What does it means? Thank you very much.

Talldave

You need to press the button to cycle through all the display values and photograph them all.