Paying sibling half of what parents gifted, plus interest

Takmon

Malthusian said:

Takmon said:

This kind of thing where money is gifted by people and then inheritance is adjusted to compensate is pretty silly in my opinion because it can cause bad feelings and a sense of entitlement to certain assets when the people involved are still alive and far from dying.
Over the years my siblings and i have received gifts which sometimes are monetary gifts and not once have we discussed about how we should all get an equal amount so it's "fair" because it wouldn't make sense.
For example one of my siblings has had a very expensive gift recently from our parents of something they "needed" but was actually not really essential but it was a very nice thing for them. It was a surprise and i helped my parents in choosing the right one because it's a bit technical and i thought it was a really nice thing for them to do and i didn't at all think that i should get something too.
When my parents die we all get an equal share of the estate and it would be ridiculous to start adding up gifts and then expecting the will to be adjusted. Also if my parents spent all their money on enjoying life while they can and then to get the best care if they ever need that then i wouldn't care if i got no inheritance in that case.

I'm very money orientated but expecting gifts or inheritance is something i would never do.

Would you still feel the same way if your parents gave one sibling hundreds of thousands of pounds?

Bear in mind that in the OP's situation, they are - in their eyes - unlikely to get anything from the estate*, and as it stands the partner has had £17k and their brother will get nil.

If I was the brother in that situation, I wouldn't feel like the situation of someone whose parents were very generous to all their children and were likely to leave an inheritance on top was particularly relevant to me.

(*In reality, you don't have to pay care costs once your assets go below £23,250 in England, with higher amounts in other UK countries, so there is a small inheritance even if you "run out".)

To address the original question: personally I would withdraw the offer and tell the brother we'll sort it out if or when the inheritance is received. No further correspondence would be entered into. If the OP's partner proceeds with the gift there is every chance they will just get more whinging further down the line.

If the brother can't pay his debts, there is every chance the partner's £8,500 (or whatever) will only benefit his creditors anyway.

I don't see how i have any kind of right to my parents money when i'm an adult and no longer a child that needs money from them to live my life. I would feel pretty embarrassed if i got into a position where i needed financial help from my parents because that would mean that i have failed in managing my finances well. 
I strongly believe that people should be free to spend their money how they like without feeling the need to give other siblings an equal amount. If my parents decided to give one of my siblings a large cash gift then there would be a good reason for it and i would only question it if i somehow thought they were being coerced or there is some other issue that they aren't doing it willingly or were being mislead somehow. 

Ozzuk

What I don't understand is how you can 'guarantee' an inheritence, you can't, by definition it is what you might get when someone dies - and they haven't died!  Care home costs could easily eat that up, or maybe they choose to take a lifetime mortgage or equity release and blow it on coke and hookers.

If the system is in a position to help, and wants to, they could give it.  If not, its a gift, there is no legal requirement to treat siblings the same (as far as I'm aware).  And don't forget, the gift limit is 3kpa, and in terms of deprivation there is no limit to how far they can go back to claim the money.
All this talk of interest is madness.

MalMonroe

mason's_mum said:

KezJH100824 said:

He is more than happy to accept the £8,500 but now wants my partner to pay him interest.

I bet he is - to be honest he seems like a piece of work. In his position I'd be grateful someone was willing to help me out at all, let alone demand extra! what's to say he wouldn't have wasted it if he'd received it in 2003?
Would he have demanded interest on the £17k from the estate?
Can the parents not afford to help him out in the same way they did your OH?

Oh that's nasty. He didn't get anything when OP's partner did and is struggling now. I don't think he seems like a piece of work at all, just someone who needs financial help, as did the OP's partner did in 2003. This is where loving and caring siblings come in handy. 

MalMonroe

Socajam said:

I would tell the brother he either gets a loan from the bank or wait until the parents die
Right now it's the parents money to do as they wish and it seems as if his greed is getting in the way of rationale thinking.
I wish parents would stop telling children that this is yours when I die etc. It only creates a lot of problems later on when the greed sets in.
He in not entitled to any interest because it was not his money, it was their parents money and until or unless they ask for interest, the brother can go take a hike.
Your partner is enabling him by agreeing to this, tell them to stop and no more talking about it. 

How is it his greed? He got NOTHING in 2003 and now HE'S the one in a financial bind. 

You're taking things a bit too far here, as well, telling the OP to tell their partner what to do!!

MalMonroe

KezJH100824 said:

Help and opinions needed please on a family financial dispute.
In 2003 my partner was given £17,000 from her parents as she needed it at the time. It was never suggested it was a loan or the amount needed to be repaid. Because her parents didn't have the money at that time to also give £17,000 to her brother, they wrote in their will that he would receive £17,000 more in the inheritance.
Her brother is now struggling financially so she would like to even out what her parents gave her by giving him £8,500 (half of the original £17,000, so they've had half each). The extra that was set aside for him in the inheritance would then be wiped out and everything would be 50/50.
He is more than happy to accept the £8,500 but now wants my partner to pay him interest.
1) Is she legally obliged to give him interest? She recognises that her 'assets' have benefited from that money since 2003.
2) If she should give him interest, how should this be worked out? We're thinking it should be compound interest on £8,500 (as if that money had been sat untouched in a savings account since 2003). Her brother has mentioned inflation AS WELL as compound interest.
3) If she agrees to pay him the £8,500 plus interest, should she get him to sign a declaration that it has been dealt with in full and final settlement? Should she also ask her parents to agree that their will should be amended so he isn't due any extra inheritance than her?
Would appreciate any advice... thank you in advance.

The problem is that your partner's brother didn't get anything at the outset. Obviously £17,000 isn't worth the same as it was 17 years ago. Now he's having financial difficulty but nobody seems to care. In retrospect the parents should have just given each of their offspring what they could afford in 2003 and not say anything about what they intended to leave in their will. 

Now this has come back to bite your partner and it isn't nice. If your partner's now willing to pay her brother £8,500 then I think that's fair enough. She shouldn't have to make up for her parents' mistake but that's the way it is. 

To my mind, and I may be wrong, families should help each other. If one sibling has lots and the other has nothing, then I do think they could help. Family should always come first. I may be daft and I may be old fashioned but that's what I believe. If someone in your immediate family is in trouble you help them if you can, without expecting anything in return. Unconditional love, isn't that how it's supposed to work? Some of the comments here are absolutely atrocious and I'm so glad my family's not like that. I guess I'm just lucky. I know where to turn if I'm ever in trouble, and help is given without question and willingly with no expectation of returns.

Your partner sounds okay to me. She wants to give her brother £8,500. It's her money, her parents, her family. Not up to anybody else. If her brother wants more and she can't or won't give it then he'll have to accept that. But the fault here lies with the parents, although they acted in good faith with the best of intentions in 2003. 

Families and money. Just don't mix.

Sea_Shell

MalMonroe said:

KezJH100824 said:

Help and opinions needed please on a family financial dispute.
In 2003 my partner was given £17,000 from her parents as she needed it at the time. It was never suggested it was a loan or the amount needed to be repaid. Because her parents didn't have the money at that time to also give £17,000 to her brother, they wrote in their will that he would receive £17,000 more in the inheritance.
Her brother is now struggling financially so she would like to even out what her parents gave her by giving him £8,500 (half of the original £17,000, so they've had half each). The extra that was set aside for him in the inheritance would then be wiped out and everything would be 50/50.
He is more than happy to accept the £8,500 but now wants my partner to pay him interest.
1) Is she legally obliged to give him interest? She recognises that her 'assets' have benefited from that money since 2003.
2) If she should give him interest, how should this be worked out? We're thinking it should be compound interest on £8,500 (as if that money had been sat untouched in a savings account since 2003). Her brother has mentioned inflation AS WELL as compound interest.
3) If she agrees to pay him the £8,500 plus interest, should she get him to sign a declaration that it has been dealt with in full and final settlement? Should she also ask her parents to agree that their will should be amended so he isn't due any extra inheritance than her?
Would appreciate any advice... thank you in advance.

To my mind, and I may be wrong, families should help each other. If one sibling has lots and the other has nothing, then I do think they could help. Family should always come first. I may be daft and I may be old fashioned but that's what I believe. If someone in your immediate family is in trouble you help them if you can, without expecting anything in return. Unconditional love, isn't that how it's supposed to work? Some of the comments here are absolutely atrocious and I'm so glad my family's not like that. I guess I'm just lucky. I know where to turn if I'm ever in trouble, and help is given without question and willingly with no expectation of returns.

That's great and all very well, if your sibling (or other family) are in trouble through no fault of their own.  (talking generally here, not at OP) 

If they have been rubbish with money, made some shocking life decisions etc. then it is NOT the responsibility of family "with" to step in and help those who are "without".      That would be like giving some people a blank cheque, with other peoples money!!    The hat would be back out again and again, and no lessons would be learnt.

It's too much of a sweeping statement to make, when every family is different, with different dynamics within it.

warby68

Sister under no obligation but yes if she wants to somehow give her brother equal value, then £8500 17 years ago is worth quite a lot more now.
To save involving parents in changing their will why not lend brother whatever amount is agreed repayable from his inheritance - if he's reasonable trustworthy of course. If the inheritance does then fall through sister can write off if she wants but he shouldn't then get double bubble if by any chance the inheritance does materialise. 

Pollycat

Malthusian said:

Would you still feel the same way if your parents gave one sibling hundreds of thousands of pounds?

Bear in mind that in the OP's situation, they are - in their eyes - unlikely to get anything from the estate*, and as it stands the partner has had £17k and their brother will get nil.

If I was the brother in that situation, I wouldn't feel like the situation of someone whose parents were very generous to all their children and were likely to leave an inheritance on top was particularly relevant to me.

(*In reality, you don't have to pay care costs once your assets go below £23,250 in England, with higher amounts in other UK countries, so there is a small inheritance even if you "run out".)

To address the original question: personally I would withdraw the offer and tell the brother we'll sort it out if or when the inheritance is received. No further correspondence would be entered into. If the OP's partner proceeds with the gift there is every chance they will just get more whinging further down the line.

If the brother can't pay his debts, there is every chance the partner's £8,500 (or whatever) will only benefit his creditors anyway.

Re the bit in bold:

It's some time since my Dad paid for his care but I thought once your assets dropped below £23,250 (that was the figure in 2011, no idea if it is still the same now) you stopped fully funding your care and the local authority contributed part of the cost.

And when your assets dropped below £14k-ish (again, can't remember the exact figure) the LA paid all the cost but took all your income - state pension, occupational pension) towards it, leaving you with £26-ish per week for spends - e,g, hair, foot care, toiletries.

Re the original question:

I think the OP's partner has been fair in offering her brother £8,500.

That's what I would have done for my sister or brother in the same circumstances.

However...once they started on with interest and inflation, I would have withdrawn the offer and refused to discuss it further.

Accountant_Kerry

£8500 settles the obligation in the will. he wouldn't get any more unless the will provides for inflation and interest so that's a reasonable settlement.

sweetsand

KezJH100824 said:

Help and opinions needed please on a family financial dispute.
In 2003 my partner was given £17,000 from her parents as she needed it at the time. It was never suggested it was a loan or the amount needed to be repaid. Because her parents didn't have the money at that time to also give £17,000 to her brother, they wrote in their will that he would receive £17,000 more in the inheritance.
Her brother is now struggling financially so she would like to even out what her parents gave her by giving him £8,500 (half of the original £17,000, so they've had half each). The extra that was set aside for him in the inheritance would then be wiped out and everything would be 50/50.
He is more than happy to accept the £8,500 but now wants my partner to pay him interest.
1) Is she legally obliged to give him interest? She recognises that her 'assets' have benefited from that money since 2003.
2) If she should give him interest, how should this be worked out? We're thinking it should be compound interest on £8,500 (as if that money had been sat untouched in a savings account since 2003). Her brother has mentioned inflation AS WELL as compound interest.
3) If she agrees to pay him the £8,500 plus interest, should she get him to sign a declaration that it has been dealt with in full and final settlement? Should she also ask her parents to agree that their will should be amended so he isn't due any extra inheritance than her?
Would appreciate any advice... thank you in advance.

Not read the thread fully like many here -  give as most suggested half, ie 8.5k plus inflation as that is very fair and getting in righting -  you say the parents did not say it was a loan etc but nor was it a "gift."  Then the parents wrote about the sharing in their will so defo not a gift - pay half plus inflation, do via soiclitors, share costs of this

Case closed.