Dodgy landlord query

smoo123

Hi, looking for advice please! My son and his friends have just finished a year's tenancy in a private house - which has been pretty poor in general - repairs not carried out, no hot water for a lengthy period, not enough food storage.  Legally there are also holes - they were only sent the deposit protection info towards the end of the year (and not within the requisite 30 days), they weren't given gas/electricity certificates on time, etc.   Now they are only being offered 2/3 of their deposit back - reasons listed: an oven clean, chipped decoration, a dent in a wall, (a very small amount of) rubbish clearance.  My question is - where do they stand legally in terms of compensation?  My understanding is that the Deposit Protection Scheme deals solely with the deposit - if there are other issues to be considered (such as the safety certificates), should we bypass the DPS and pursue this via the small claims court?  Some of the reasons listed are correct (the oven probably does need a clean) but there were so many issues NOT addressed by the landlord during the year they were there, the £600 charge feels excessive - not to mention the fact that no one even lived in the property for the last three months of lockdown - the landlord is already quids in.  I have no experience of using the small claims court - is it likely to leave me out of pocket? 

fishpond

"no one even lived in the property for the last three months of lockdown - the landlord is already quids in."
Why?

dimbo61

Did the landlord kick the tenants out of the property at the start of the lockdown or did they go home at Easter to stay with mum and dad ?
Did they clear their rooms and clean the property before returning home for Easter / Lockdown.
Did they return the keys and ask for an early release from the contract they all signed.
Did the Landlord stop paying the BTL mortgage on the property ?
Have you stopped paying your mortgage or loans or credit cards ?
Life had to carry on Covid19 Pandemic or not.
Did the property have a Gas Safe Certificate and EICR or not ?

Slithery

smoo123 said:

My understanding is that the Deposit Protection Scheme deals solely with the deposit - if there are other issues to be considered (such as the safety certificates), should we bypass the DPS and pursue this via the small claims court?

And claim for what losses?

sammyjammy

smoo123 said:

Hi, looking for advice please! My son and his friends have just finished a year's tenancy in a private house - which has been pretty poor in general - repairs not carried out, no hot water for a lengthy period, not enough food storage.  Legally there are also holes - they were only sent the deposit protection info towards the end of the year (and not within the requisite 30 days), they weren't given gas/electricity certificates on time, etc.   Now they are only being offered 2/3 of their deposit back - reasons listed: an oven clean, chipped decoration, a dent in a wall, (a very small amount of) rubbish clearance.  My question is - where do they stand legally in terms of compensation?  My understanding is that the Deposit Protection Scheme deals solely with the deposit - if there are other issues to be considered (such as the safety certificates), should we bypass the DPS and pursue this via the small claims court?  Some of the reasons listed are correct (the oven probably does need a clean) but there were so many issues NOT addressed by the landlord during the year they were there, the £600 charge feels excessive - not to mention the fact that no one even lived in the property for the last three months of lockdown - the landlord is already quids in.  I have no experience of using the small claims court - is it likely to leave me out of pocket? 

Why would you be out of poclet?

AdrianC

smoo123 said:

My son and his friends have just finished a year's tenancy in a private house - which has been pretty poor in general - repairs not carried out, no hot water for a lengthy period, not enough food storage.

Didn't anybody bother looking at the food cupboards before agreeing to take the property?

Legally there are also holes - they were only sent the deposit protection info towards the end of the year (and not within the requisite 30 days), they weren't given gas/electricity certificates on time, etc.   Now they are only being offered 2/3 of their deposit back - reasons listed: an oven clean, chipped decoration, a dent in a wall, (a very small amount of) rubbish clearance.

So all fair deductions in the normal course of things, but they should just reclaim through the DPS arbitration. If the landlord can prove the deductions are justified, they will be withheld.

The late gas cert and prescribed info would void any s21 notice, but I presume that they gave notice to the landlord...

My question is - where do they stand legally in terms of compensation?

Just under the sign that says "Free hugs from Mummy here"

My understanding is that the Deposit Protection Scheme deals solely with the deposit - if there are other issues to be considered (such as the safety certificates), should we bypass the DPS and pursue this via the small claims court?  Some of the reasons listed are correct (the oven probably does need a clean) but there were so many issues NOT addressed by the landlord during the year they were there, the £600 charge feels excessive

It doesn't work like that.

There isn't an exchange rate of wrongs to allowable damage.

- not to mention the fact that no one even lived in the property for the last three months of lockdown - the landlord is already quids in.

They, I presume, chose to move out early...?

I have no experience of using the small claims court - is it likely to leave me out of pocket? 

Umm, I thought THEY were the tenants, not you?

cooltt

smoo123 said:

Hi, looking for advice please! My son and his friends have just finished a year's tenancy in a private house - which has been pretty poor in general - repairs not carried out, no hot water for a lengthy period, not enough food storage.  Legally there are also holes - they were only sent the deposit protection info towards the end of the year (and not within the requisite 30 days), they weren't given gas/electricity certificates on time, etc.   Now they are only being offered 2/3 of their deposit back - reasons listed: an oven clean, chipped decoration, a dent in a wall, (a very small amount of) rubbish clearance.  My question is - where do they stand legally in terms of compensation?  My understanding is that the Deposit Protection Scheme deals solely with the deposit - if there are other issues to be considered (such as the safety certificates), should we bypass the DPS and pursue this via the small claims court?  Some of the reasons listed are correct (the oven probably does need a clean) but there were so many issues NOT addressed by the landlord during the year they were there, the £600 charge feels excessive - not to mention the fact that no one even lived in the property for the last three months of lockdown - the landlord is already quids in.  I have no experience of using the small claims court - is it likely to leave me out of pocket? 

You been burned lady, burned real goood.

All commets valid, only option is to dispute via the DPS scheme where landlord must prove deductions are fair.

grumiofoundation

smoo123 said:

Hi, looking for advice please! My son and his friends have just finished a year's tenancy in a private house - which has been pretty poor in general - repairs not carried out, no hot water for a lengthy period, not enough food storage.  Legally there are also holes - they were only sent the deposit protection info towards the end of the year (and not within the requisite 30 days), they weren't given gas/electricity certificates on time, etc.   Now they are only being offered 2/3 of their deposit back - reasons listed: an oven clean, chipped decoration, a dent in a wall, (a very small amount of) rubbish clearance.  My question is - where do they stand legally in terms of compensation?  My understanding is that the Deposit Protection Scheme deals solely with the deposit - if there are other issues to be considered (such as the safety certificates), should we bypass the DPS and pursue this via the small claims court?  Some of the reasons listed are correct (the oven probably does need a clean) but there were so many issues NOT addressed by the landlord during the year they were there, the £600 charge feels excessive - not to mention the fact that no one even lived in the property for the last three months of lockdown - the landlord is already quids in.  I have no experience of using the small claims court - is it likely to leave me out of pocket? 

For deposit deductions they should dispute any deductions as relevant via deposit scheme.

Your only hope of 'compensation' is if deposit protection rules were not followed your son can sue landlord for non-compliance and, assuming rules weren't followed, if it went to court landlord would have to pay between 1-3x value of deposit as penalty.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_compensation_claims

Don't bother trying to get compensation for rest unless they can prove a loss. Things like lack of food storage etc - irrelevant, as said they chose to rent the place.
Gas safety etc report to HSE/local council (as appropriate) if you/your son wish.

greatcrested

Not what you (or the tenants?) wanted to hear, but all the above are valid comments. For detailed response see bold below:

smoo123 said:

My son and his friends have just finished a year's tenancy in a private house - which has been pretty poor in general - repairs not carried out, no hot water for a lengthy period, not enough food storage. 

* by 'finish' do you mean the tenants simply moved out, or the tenancy was properly ended?

* 'finished' how? The fixed term ended? The landlord served a S21 Notice and a court awarded him possession? Or the tenants served proper notice? Please clarify.

* on what exact date did it finish?

* how did the tenants deal with the repairing problems during the tenancy? Once the tenancy has ended it's a bit late....

* unless the landlord removed storage cupbords between the date the tenancy agreement was signed and the date the tenancy started, the fault lies with the tenants.

Legally there are also holes - they were only sent the deposit protection info towards the end of the year (and not within the requisite 30 days),

* The tenants can claim 3 times the deposit as penalty. Likely to be awrded less, eg 1 (maybe 2?) times the deposit as a) the deposit WAS protected and b) the info WAS sent, albeit late.

they weren't given gas/electricity certificates on time, etc.

* no certificates = LL cannot serve valid S21 Notice. See my 1st question above.

* cannot comment on 'etc'.

   Now they are only being offered 2/3 of their deposit back - reasons listed: an oven clean, chipped decoration, a dent in a wall, (a very small amount of) rubbish clearance.

* are these valid claims ie was the oven dirty? did the tenants chip the decoration etc?

* are the ammounts claimed fair? See link below.

  My question is - where do they stand legally in terms of compensation? 

* as above - claim for penalty ( not compensation) for late deposit info is on the face of it likely to succeed

* the deposit deductions depend on the questions above

My understanding is that the Deposit Protection Scheme deals solely with the deposit - if there are other issues to be considered (such as the safety certificates), should we bypass the DPS and pursue this via the small claims court?

* yes the scheme only deals with the deposit

* no the small claims court will not award compensation for missing certificates, or storage cupboards, or repairing issues, unless the tenants can clearly evidence a financial loss they have incurred

  Some of the reasons listed are correct (the oven probably does need a clean) but there were so many issues NOT addressed by the landlord during the year they were there, the £600 charge feels excessive

* as you don't mention the 'many issues' we cannot really comment - but the same principles as above apply:

a) did the tenants properly report and pursue any repairing issues during the tenancy?

b) can the tenance provide evidence of financial los they incurred as a direct result of those issues?

- not to mention the fact that no one even lived in the property for the last three months of lockdown - the landlord is already quids in.

* when did the tenancy 'finish' (your word)? If after lockdown how is the LL 'quids in'? He (presumably) demanded and received rent as per the contract till the date the contract finished?

* if the tenants chose not to live in the property, for a weekend away, a month in Ibiza, or 3 months somewhere else (parents?) that is nothing to do with the LL. He received no extra money - simply what the contract specified.

I have no experience of using the small claims court - is it likely to leave me out of pocket? 

No. But it may leave the tenants out of pocket!

From what you've said, yes, any claim will probably fail, but of course you've provided incomplete details so there may be a valid claim .... or maybe not.

smoo123

Ouch!  Lot of landlords round here, clearly with axes to grind.  Not sure there's justification for the comments.   It was a genuine query - no need for the personal attacks.  Last time I came here it was friendly!  

smoo123

But thanks to GreatCrested for attempted some proper advice.