Furlough ..... My employee does not want to come back because it isn't worth the difference.

unholyangel

GHolmesAdmin said:

There is always a contract of employment  -  even if you have not issued one, (which is illegal BTW.)

It's a statement of particulars that needs to be issued. Not a contract of employment. 

As for the OP....if the employee had voiced health concerns I'd maybe be of a different opinion and OP may have the length of time they've known her weighing on their decision but I would be reluctant to offer unpaid leave in the circumstances. 

It's still going to cost the OP with holiday pay, length of service etc accruing. Although probability is that the employee wouldn't opt to go on unpaid leave. So how good is your poker face?

Also, what was suggested above (agreeing to allow her to remain on furlough) would not be an option. You can't choose to furlough staff just because they'd prefer to remain on furlough. They need to be furloughed because their employment duties have been impacted by covid. 

dunstonh

Maybe you should tell the employee that you are unable to continue furlough as the business is open and in the need of staffing. To continue claiming furlough in that position puts you at risk of falling foul of HMRC and you do not wish to do that.   HMRC have the ability to not only reclaim the CJRS paid but also levy penalty interest of up to double the amount.     And as you are clearly claiming it in breach of their rules, you wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
So, she needs to decide whether she returns or leaves.  Put the ball back in her court.

alun4

dunstonh said:

Maybe you should tell the employee that you are unable to continue furlough as the business is open and in the need of staffing. To continue claiming furlough in that position puts you at risk of falling foul of HMRC and you do not wish to do that.   HMRC have the ability to not only reclaim the CJRS paid but also levy penalty interest of up to double the amount.     And as you are clearly claiming it in breach of their rules, you wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
So, she needs to decide whether she returns or leaves.  Put the ball back in her court.

No,  quite wrong!  The business is not yet operating as anything like "normal". No open door ... only seeing potential customers by prior booked appointment but from time to time I will benefit from the "opportunity" to take away waste, deliver, go to bank and post office .... see the accountant  .... deal with premises maintenance .....  etc. The income would not remotely support full staff wage and very much hoping the position improves and there is no second wave.
Quite puzzled as to where you draw the conclusion that I am in any way breaching the rules of the supportive scheme which has saved many small businesses that would have gone over the edge.

unholyangel

alun4 said:

dunstonh said:

Maybe you should tell the employee that you are unable to continue furlough as the business is open and in the need of staffing. To continue claiming furlough in that position puts you at risk of falling foul of HMRC and you do not wish to do that.   HMRC have the ability to not only reclaim the CJRS paid but also levy penalty interest of up to double the amount.     And as you are clearly claiming it in breach of their rules, you wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
So, she needs to decide whether she returns or leaves.  Put the ball back in her court.

No,  quite wrong!  The business is not yet operating as anything like "normal". No open door ... only seeing potential customers by prior booked appointment but from time to time I will benefit from the "opportunity" to take away waste, deliver, go to bank and post office .... see the accountant  .... deal with premises maintenance .....  etc. The income would not remotely support full staff wage and very much hoping the position improves and there is no second wave.
Quite puzzled as to where you draw the conclusion that I am in any way breaching the rules of the supportive scheme which has saved many small businesses that would have gone over the edge.

They're talking about if you were to continue to claim furlough for the staff member who has decided it's not worth her while to come in and work for you. 

Grumpy_chap

Has the OP taken this up with the employee yet?

alun4

Grumpy_chap said:

Has the OP taken this up with the employee yet?

No, I’m waiting to see if she travels to work tomorrow. On Tuesday (when I said I wanted her back in on Friday ...... “See youFriday!” ....  she said she wasn’t coming into work again this week (as detailed earlier). I advised her that the scheme didn’t work that way and that she should think and discuss with her family. 

dunstonh

No,  quite wrong!  The business is not yet operating as anything like "normal".

Well, do you need her back working or not?  Your posts suggest you do.   Now you are saying you don't.

Quite puzzled as to where you draw the conclusion that I am in any way breaching the rules of the supportive scheme which has saved many small businesses that would have gone over the edge.

Furlough is not there to pay someone who is enjoying being paid 80% for doing nothing.  If the business needs the person back furlough should not be used.     If its a part return then flexible furlough should be used.    It is the employer, not the employee, that suffers HMRC action if they feel you are in breach.    And you would be in breach if you let the employee decide they dont want to work and you claim money for doing so.

alun4

dunstonh said:

Well, do you need her back working or not?  

Probably enough "true work" to occupy 2 hours for 2 days a week. but we should all be attempting and testing the route back (is my understanding)
dunstonh said:

Furlough is not there to pay someone who is enjoying being paid 80% for doing nothing. 

 dunstonh said:

     And as you are clearly claiming it in breach of their rules, you wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

I missed the Daily Briefing where the Prime Minister made it "clearly in breach of the rules" if the employee was not grilled by her employer as to whether or not they enjoyed their garden or painting their cupboards whilst on Furlough or now Flexible Furlough. I am quite upset by what I read as your attack on my honesty and integrity.

dunstonh

I am quite upset by what I read as your attack on my honesty and integrity.

Good grief.  Are you an adult or a child?  

You have clearly said that is your employee that doesn't want to work.    And I have clearly said that it will be you that is responsible for any action from HMRC.  Not your employee.     It is not an attack on your honesty or integrity but a statement of fact about what happens if your claim CJRS incorrectly.   It is you that is facing the risks whilst you are letting the employee dictate what they want.

I missed the Daily Briefing where the Prime Minister made it "clearly in breach of the rules" if the employee was not grilled by her employer as to whether or not they enjoyed their garden or painting their cupboards whilst on Furlough or now Flexible Furlough.

Do you want to get this sorted or do you want to play silly buggers?

It doesn't need a daily briefing to set out the CJRS rules as they are on the website for all to see.     If your employee doesn't want to work and wants to continue being paid then clearly they are enjoying their free time more at taxpayer expense. However, after August, you will start sharing that cost.        Maybe you are happy to pay them for sitting in their garden and have them dictating how you run your business.     

alun4

I am 68 though I don’t understand what my age has to do with my caring or sensitivity. 

I find your tone that of a workplace BULLY and even your language “bu...ger” discourteous and offensive . I have never in my life sworn at anyone or tried to belittle them. But I will add you must be a very unpleasant person.