Money Moral Dilemma: Is it wrong to use staff discount after I've quit?

MrsStepford

Using a staff discount code after 12 months outside of the company seems like fraud to me. Best stop it, before they find you out. 

Mickey666

Matt8888 said:

sarahsays said:

Each to their own - may be some awkward questions from the company in the future though! The worst one I heard on here was someone on the mortgage free wannabe forum, whose husband booked business travel on hotels.com on his personal credit card, claimed those expenses from the company he worked for, and then, without making the company aware of it, used the free reward nights accrued on hotels.com for personal family holidays!  He seemingly travelled a lot for work so had a lot of free reward nights for personal holidays. His wife put herself across as being a paragon of virtue, emphasised church-going, helping out at church etc, but saw nothing wrong with this! Decidedly dodgy I would have thought.

This is the worst you heard?! This is very, very common practice and businesses will be well aware that frequent travellers build up benefits from airmiles and hotel loyalty schemes etc (or even just basic credit card reward points). Some businesses may have policies against it, but none that I have worked for or heard of. I have top tier travel status with several airlines thanks to business travel which gets me huge benefits including, upgraded flights (often free or using accrued airmiles) and free flights using airmiles. This is no secret. On a really lucky run, I was upgraded for free on four out of five personal flights in a row, free of charge at the gate, thanks to the airline policy of overbooking (pre-Covid). This was all because of the "status" my frequent flying got me, much of which was as a result of business travel. The companies know full well. Perhaps they see it as a non-taxable benefit? Perhaps it is too much hassle to find a way to claw rewards back for business use, which would be very complicated. Perhaps it is seen as a perk for spending time away from family in boring hotel rooms around the world, sleep deprived in different time zones? Or perhaps it is because the senior decision makers over such things usually benefit themselves from such things!? Take your pick, but it is not "wrong". It is entirely accepted practice and no company out there is unaware that employees can and do get such benefits. I know that it may grate and seem unfair to people who do not get such benefits from their employment, but there is nothing underhand about it. It is entirely above board and normal.

Yes, I've used a personal cash-back credit card for legitimate business expenses as well.  I've also benefited from air miles and airline 'gold cards' accrued on company business trips.  But, unless expressly forbidden by the employee's T&Cs (mine were not) there is nothing illegal or fraudulent about such things because all parties fully understand what is happening.  This is what I would call a 'perk' and it cuts both ways.

The company benefits if I use my personal credit card for company business because it doesn't incur the cost and administration of a company credit card and I benefit from a little cashback each year and, possibly, a better credit rating.  Win-win.

When I flew around the world on business, the company benefited by me being flexible in my working hours and not expecting to be paid for every hour I was away from my home and family, and I (and family) benefited by being able to use the accumulated air miles and 'gold card' benefits for cheaper holidays.  Win-win.  Actually, one company I worked for had a policy that allowed anyone away from home on business for two nights or more could buy a small present for their partners or children on expenses in recognition of the disruption to family life.

There's an argument that these 'perks' are benefits-in-kind and should therefore be taxed but as the tax laws currently stand (or stood about 15 years ago in my case) that is not the case.  So again, everyone knows what is happening so no deception on anyone's part.

So basically, there's no comparison to the OP's example of a an EX-member of staff continuing to take a staff-only discount because of the deception involved and quite possible outright fraud.  The only way to avoid that would be to ask the company if they could still have the staff discount even though they were no longer a member of staff.  If the company agreed then fine, if they didn't then continuing would be fraudulent.

Of course, many people have no moral qualms about committing fraud and stealing, but that doesn't make it right.

Mickey666

Bashyacta said:

I’m saddened by comments that have suggested it’s OK to use a staff discount you’re no longer entitled to if your employer is a large company but not if it’s a small family-run one; and that it’s OK as the company has not taken steps to prevent you. Do the same arguments apply to stealing?

Sadly, I suspect they do for many people.  It's that old 'victimless crime' thing - stealing a tenner from an old lady would generally be regarded as despicable but keeping quiet about a bank's cash machine handing out £60 instead of the £50 you asked for would likely be thought of as 'getting one over' on the bank.

Has anyone on here ever pinched a pen from their employer?  or some printer paper?  or some 'Post-It' notes 

JGB1955

Mickey666 said:

Has anyone on here ever pinched a pen from their employer?  or some printer paper?  or some 'Post-It' notes 

I'm a bit sad that, 7 years after retirement, my stash of Sellotape has been used up.  Would people be worried about taking biros from their local bookies, Argos or Ikea... I think not.  I'm a geocacher and make very good use of the Ikea pens and tape measures.  I have no morals (apparently)!  Am I bothered?  Absolutely not!  Oh.. forgot about the NWB metal ruler (and umpteen rubbers) that my husband has accumulated.

Torry_Quine

Mickey666 said:

Bashyacta said:

I’m saddened by comments that have suggested it’s OK to use a staff discount you’re no longer entitled to if your employer is a large company but not if it’s a small family-run one; and that it’s OK as the company has not taken steps to prevent you. Do the same arguments apply to stealing?

Sadly, I suspect they do for many people.  It's that old 'victimless crime' thing - stealing a tenner from an old lady would generally be regarded as despicable but keeping quiet about a bank's cash machine handing out £60 instead of the £50 you asked for would likely be thought of as 'getting one over' on the bank.

Has anyone on here ever pinched a pen from their employer?  or some printer paper?  or some 'Post-It' notes 

I can honestly say that when I was working I never took anything from work. I only made a call from the work phone if I had to let my husband know I was working late. Mobiles weren't allowed. 
I don't think I'm the only one either.

sarahsays

Mickey666 said:

Matt8888 said:

sarahsays said:

Each to their own - may be some awkward questions from the company in the future though! The worst one I heard on here was someone on the mortgage free wannabe forum, whose husband booked business travel on hotels.com on his personal credit card, claimed those expenses from the company he worked for, and then, without making the company aware of it, used the free reward nights accrued on hotels.com for personal family holidays!  He seemingly travelled a lot for work so had a lot of free reward nights for personal holidays. His wife put herself across as being a paragon of virtue, emphasised church-going, helping out at church etc, but saw nothing wrong with this! Decidedly dodgy I would have thought.

This is the worst you heard?! This is very, very common practice and businesses will be well aware that frequent travellers build up benefits from airmiles and hotel loyalty schemes etc (or even just basic credit card reward points). Some businesses may have policies against it, but none that I have worked for or heard of. I have top tier travel status with several airlines thanks to business travel which gets me huge benefits including, upgraded flights (often free or using accrued airmiles) and free flights using airmiles. This is no secret. On a really lucky run, I was upgraded for free on four out of five personal flights in a row, free of charge at the gate, thanks to the airline policy of overbooking (pre-Covid). This was all because of the "status" my frequent flying got me, much of which was as a result of business travel. The companies know full well. Perhaps they see it as a non-taxable benefit? Perhaps it is too much hassle to find a way to claw rewards back for business use, which would be very complicated. Perhaps it is seen as a perk for spending time away from family in boring hotel rooms around the world, sleep deprived in different time zones? Or perhaps it is because the senior decision makers over such things usually benefit themselves from such things!? Take your pick, but it is not "wrong". It is entirely accepted practice and no company out there is unaware that employees can and do get such benefits. I know that it may grate and seem unfair to people who do not get such benefits from their employment, but there is nothing underhand about it. It is entirely above board and normal.

Yes, I've used a personal cash-back credit card for legitimate business expenses as well.  I've also benefited from air miles and airline 'gold cards' accrued on company business trips.  But, unless expressly forbidden by the employee's T&Cs (mine were not) there is nothing illegal or fraudulent about such things because all parties fully understand what is happening.  This is what I would call a 'perk' and it cuts both ways.

The company benefits if I use my personal credit card for company business because it doesn't incur the cost and administration of a company credit card and I benefit from a little cashback each year and, possibly, a better credit rating.  Win-win.

When I flew around the world on business, the company benefited by me being flexible in my working hours and not expecting to be paid for every hour I was away from my home and family, and I (and family) benefited by being able to use the accumulated air miles and 'gold card' benefits for cheaper holidays.  Win-win.  Actually, one company I worked for had a policy that allowed anyone away from home on business for two nights or more could buy a small present for their partners or children on expenses in recognition of the disruption to family life.

There's an argument that these 'perks' are benefits-in-kind and should therefore be taxed but as the tax laws currently stand (or stood about 15 years ago in my case) that is not the case.  So again, everyone knows what is happening so no deception on anyone's part.

So basically, there's no comparison to the OP's example of a an EX-member of staff continuing to take a staff-only discount because of the deception involved and quite possible outright fraud.  The only way to avoid that would be to ask the company if they could still have the staff discount even though they were no longer a member of staff.  If the company agreed then fine, if they didn't then continuing would be fraudulent.

Of course, many people have no moral qualms about committing fraud and stealing, but that doesn't make it right.

Unless expressly forbidden? How about, unless expressly allowed? Just because an employer doesn't notice the fraud doesn't mean it isn't fraud.  Seems like white collar crime is alive and well.  Where does it end? So, if you and a colleague travel together to a meeting, is it okay to put in two sets of mileage?  If you buy something for the company which happens to be on buy one get one free, is it okay to keep the free one?  These are all dishonest practices.  I often sort out insurance or holiday bookings for family. friends, or others who are not computer literate using a cash back site but always pass on the cashback to them - to do otherwise would feel extremely deceitful, likewise with an employer. Some try to justify it by saying they are not getting what they expected or deserved from employers or are doing extra unpaid hours - well, in that case stand up for yourself and complain or get another job - don't try to benefit from hookey practices.  Tax laws would also apply. To clarify, this is indeed committing fraud and stealing, and, no, having no moral qualms about it doesn't make it right.

JB50MSE

I'm retired, and some years ago used to work for a large company which has its own website through which employees get special offers and benefits, including various discount options through an online discounter. I contacted the online discounter, explained, and asked if they could help me sign up if I was allowed to do so. The discounter helped me sign up and now I receive all sorts of offers, a very few of which I have taken up. It helps me eke my pension out (buy a little bit more for the same money). Some company benefits ceased, but I was able to continue two benefits, including this discounter. The company prevents access to those discounts or benefits it wants to limit to current employees. Speaking to friends, this appears fairly common with all sorts of companies.

crmism

I imagine that fashion brands already have an unwarranted mark-up in their retail price but, that apart, the administration at your former place of work much be pretty sloppy if it still has you down in its books as an employee, so I shouldn't lose too much sleep about claiming discounts you're not officially entitled to. Carry on until the shop realizes its mistake, and don't offer to refund any money if asked!

MoonChild91

Honestly, I don't see this as really being much different to searching for a money off code online or using Honey as several of the codes used are meant for subscribers only/students etc. My university email account is still active (I graduated 5 years ago now, but our emails are given to us for life as part of the alumni community) and you can bet I still use student discount codes online whenever I can or pass them on to friends! I now work in education, and nearly every member of staff uses their work email address to sign up for student discount online (we're entitled to NUS cards as staff, but these are in store only). 
How many people have a friend or family member who works somewhere who they ask (or they offer) to purchase things on their behalf so they can get it discounted too? 
I've also been sent out on supplies/lunch runs by a couple of jobs and internships I've done - I always used my Nectar or Tesco card and collected the points, and they've never seemed to cared when I handed my receipt in. 

yorkshireval

Your terms of employment will state what happen's to staff discount. I continue to receive them from my previous employer & it clearly stated it could still be used after ceasing employment but any change would be notified in writing. Hope this helps.